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-   -   GA mishap rates up 20%? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/68371-ga-mishap-rates-up-20-a.html)

USMCFLYR 06-26-2012 06:26 PM


Originally Posted by N4185Q (Post 1219491)
I don't know where Businessweek is getting their information from but, the 2011 Nall report shows a steady decline and a 17% decrease in GA accidents since 2001. Just look at page three:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications...ll-summary.pdf

If the report was to be taken literally, it starts out by saying "private-pilot flights" whereas the Nall report states all non-commercial fixed wing.

I have no idea if they (Businessweek) are smart enough to actually differentiate such accident stats, but one thing is for sure - statistics can be made to follow any particular agenda.

USMCFLYR

JamesNoBrakes 06-26-2012 10:25 PM


Originally Posted by Std Deviation (Post 1219271)
Attitudes are extremely difficult to change (1st generation CRM). Behavior is the target (6th generation). I can still have a poor attitude about something but have safe behavior. The assessments are tools that when used as intended work well. Unfortunately the part 91 typical GA training program focuses on mastering PTS standards but has little grounding in decision making, situational awareness, task priortization, workload management, etc. This was the whole point of FITS training being developed. Give students scenario based training instead of theoretical. IMO the FITS has limited success.

Not going to work. The only way risk assessments work is if they are enforced 100% of the time (not going to happen) and if they completely anticipate every possible scenario (not really possible). I go back to what I said before: They help safety-professionals sleep well at night, but do little to really address any problems. I'm well versed in safety culture, human factors (not the BS CRM stuff they sell you at aeronautical schools, I mean ergonomics and real human factors (psychology)).

Std Deviation 06-27-2012 05:33 AM


Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 1219588)
They help safety-professionals sleep well at night, but do little to really address any problems. I'm well versed in safety culture, human factors (not the BS CRM stuff they sell you at aeronautical schools, I mean ergonomics and real human factors (psychology)).

Sorry about the "BS" CRM you received in the past. I can tell you that as a safety professional myself that works directly with a large percentage of the Fortune 500 flight departments (part 91), they do believe in the concept and enforce it. Perhaps as the material filters down to other GA operations out there it gets diluted. Or perhaps even misused?

csucbrown 08-05-2012 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1218516)
This article states that GA mishap rates are up 20% since 2000, while there has been an approximate 85% decrease in commercial operations and associated mishap rates.
It is basically saying at one point that GA pilots are not learning from their mistakes or benefiting from the recent advances in safety cultures and programs.

Deadly Private-Plane Crashes Prompt U.S. Call for Basics - Businessweek

Do the GA pilots here on APC think they have benefited from the recent safety advancements?

USMCFLYR


After I received my instrument rating I offered to act as a safety pilot for the guys at my school still working on theirs. On one occasion I was riding in a G530 equipped c172. While en-route the GPS gave us a big middle finger ("GPS SIGNAL LOST") and the student flying under the hood completely lost SA in a short time and wasn't sure what to do. He's probably not the first one its happened to.

Once I get my CFII I'll make sure to reproduce that scenario for all my students.

N9373M 08-06-2012 01:58 AM


Originally Posted by csucbrown (Post 1240668)
After I received my instrument rating I offered to act as a safety pilot for the guys at my school still working on theirs. On one occasion I was riding in a G530 equipped c172. While en-route the GPS gave us a big middle finger ("GPS SIGNAL LOST") and the student flying under the hood completely lost SA in a short time and wasn't sure what to do. He's probably not the first one its happened to.

Once I get my CFII I'll make sure to reproduce that scenario for all my students.

+1. One of the best questions I got during my training was "where are you"? (ADF/VOR/ded rekoning days).

chrisreedrules 08-06-2012 04:40 AM

I think a lot of it has to do with reliance on GPS and not being proficient in VORs, ADF, NDB... Old school style. I have noticed a big difference in instructors too. Older instructors don't really like you to be so reliant on GPS (for good reason... its a wonderful tool, but should be your only means of SA) and younger guys aren't as reluctant to rely on it so much.

And yet more of it has to do with certain areas. Anyone who has flown around central FL on the weekends can attest to this. Every yahoo with an experimental, ultralight, recreational license, and wet private are out dorking around in the sky being about as safe as a skydiver without a parachute. I've almost had mid-air collisions several times at uncontrolled fields due to some idiot not knowing where he is in the pattern or not making his call-outs appropriately. I cussed out someone over CTAF in Palatka (not professional I know, but this idiot really pushed my buttons) because I called right base to final and he comes out of nowhere with a "base to final" call for the same runway. I was saved by the fact that I was a little high and I watched him go right through my flight path about 200 ft below. He got mad that I yelled at him and gave me the, "I fly here every weekend! Who do you think you are!?" I'm out here dropping skydivers out of the sky and this idiot is just out farting around not making any calls.

And don't even get me started on the huge amount of foreign student pilots around here who tie up the radios with unintelligible gibberish and really can't fly worth a crap. Nuttier than squirrel **** around here some days.

On my last checkride, my DPE mentioned that in the next 10 years... there will be a push by the FAA to make a Private Pilot rating include an Instrument rating. Basically 2 ratings in one. Will cost twice as much, but I think it isn't the worst idea. It would make things a lot safer I would think. It would basically go: Sport/Recreational, Private (including all the instrument training), Commercial, etc... What would everyone think of something like this?

N9373M 08-06-2012 05:54 AM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1240817)
On my last checkride, my DPE mentioned that in the next 10 years... there will be a push by the FAA to make a Private Pilot rating include an Instrument rating. Basically 2 ratings in one. Will cost twice as much, but I think it isn't the worst idea. It would make things a lot safer I would think. It would basically go: Sport/Recreational, Private (including all the instrument training), Commercial, etc... What would everyone think of something like this?

If the IR is mandated by the FAA, you'll see the number of GA pilots shrink even more.

EasternATC 08-06-2012 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1240817)
... What would everyone think of something like this?

I think it would stink; very bad for GA.

rickair7777 08-06-2012 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by csucbrown (Post 1240668)
After I received my instrument rating I offered to act as a safety pilot for the guys at my school still working on theirs. On one occasion I was riding in a G530 equipped c172. While en-route the GPS gave us a big middle finger ("GPS SIGNAL LOST") and the student flying under the hood completely lost SA in a short time and wasn't sure what to do. He's probably not the first one its happened to.

Once I get my CFII I'll make sure to reproduce that scenario for all my students.


I suggest you just turn the GPS off for the first 20 hours or so. Then use GPS only every other flight until time for checkride prep.

rickair7777 08-06-2012 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 1240817)
On my last checkride, my DPE mentioned that in the next 10 years... there will be a push by the FAA to make a Private Pilot rating include an Instrument rating. Basically 2 ratings in one. Will cost twice as much, but I think it isn't the worst idea. It would make things a lot safer I would think. It would basically go: Sport/Recreational, Private (including all the instrument training), Commercial, etc... What would everyone think of something like this?


Bad idea. Other than the obvious economic impact to aviation (scaring away half the customers) I don't think an instrument rating will improve safety much unless it is exercised on a regular basis, and that will require more than six approaches every six months for a PPL who only flies VFR.

Probably better to develop a robust info campaign to keep folks reminded of the top hazards to GA.


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