Ottopilot

Still have not heard from anyone as to why it would be unsafe. The argument is about the same for flying the North Atlantic on two engines.

LCAL dude

How many systems do you lose on a NG73 when you're down to 1 engine with no APU? What are you left with? Suppose your single good generator craps out and you're down to battery power in the weather. Now be at 30W, at night in that situation.


What are the odds? Slim. But I don't play "Let's bet your life."

SpecialTracking

Is that question rhetorical? If not, absolutely....yes.

Btw, had one of your cAPT on the jumpseat and had the same discussion. He was proud to proclaim that he accepted a -900 guppy without a yaw damper. Our mouths were open. There are instances where refusing a mel'd item is perfectly acceptable, and there are times when flying with the inop system is safe. It's called utilizing experience and judgement.

Please tell me you would not fly without tcas?

SpecialTracking

Would you divert to KEF in the winter without an APU? What if you blow a motor and the other operating generator fails, at night?

Ottopilot

I'll agree with that 100%, but we are talking about a 757 with an inop APU and NOTHING else. Not a problem to fly.

Lerxst

And having an ALPA policy manual that backs up the Captains decision with Association guidance on recommended operational equipment for differing flight conditions.

CAL managers love throwing out the legal=safe, according to the established acfts MEL argument when Captains begin to refuse technically "airworthy" planes. cAptains buy into that argument, the rest of us do not.

oldmako

Ask the two UAL f/o's allowed themselves to be talked into flying a 67 from IAD to Sao Paolo one night. It's a LONG way on the backside of the clock, something like 10-11 hours. Much of South America is quite inhospitable jungle with big big mountains.

Many of the "relief" airports are lame by U.S. standards.

The proverbial screwdriver in the EE bay started flying around and they either had a total electrical failure or a massive one including the loss of primary flight instruments. It ended up that a main supply line had chafed through a firewall and was happily welding itself to the plane. They ended up diverting into Manaus if I am not mistaken. Our manual suggests only to use that airport in extreme duress due to terrain and a whole host of other safety issues. Yet, there they were in a mostly dark and severely crippled airplane, in a BIG hurry to land.

Those boys would have given their left dangler for an APU that night. If you ever get a chance to read the report, I encourage you to do so. It may sway your cavalier attitude toward redundancy and safety. LOTS of people died to bring aviation to this level of safety. They left lessons learned and regulations written in blood.

Or, how about if they lost an engine instead? Now they've got a single bleed supply AND a single gen with no APU? Cool! Now you get to drift down and may have pressurization / pack issues to deal with. What if the good generator overloads and fails? Do you really think your passengers would be happy to know that you were voluntarily leaving on a long flight over water without an essential piece of the airplane available? Just because YOU think its not essential, it doesn't mean it ain't so.

Many of the Boeing irregular and emergency checklists have starting the APU as item number one. I think that's all one needs to know. That mother needs to be available.

Culture.

SpecialTracking

An inop apu and nothing else? Really? That is enough for me. It would not be a problem to fly between ord and dsm on a beautiful sunny day. I would never dream of taking it across the North Atlantic, nor would I want my family in the back if someone else was flying it. Our passengers expect more than that.

SpecialTracking

I will be quite interested to see how CAL managers interact with sUAL pilots.

Ottopilot

The 737 is not a 757/767. The 756 has 4 generators. Losing one is not an emergency. That is why it can be MEL'd for ETOPS, while on the 737 it cannot. That is the whole point of the discusson, not adding multiple other problems or another location/terrain issues.

No one ever said they would take an inop APU in every situation, just that you can fly ETOPS without one. Leagally and safely.