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NTSB reports student pilots should read

Old 04-17-2013, 02:00 AM
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Default NTSB reports student pilots should read

Sept 25, 1978. Every student pilot should read that report, among others. I keep a few select NTSB reports in a binder for them to read, and that is one of them.
Here it is...

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR79-05.pdf


What other NTSB reports would you recommend or think student pilots should read? Why?
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:57 AM
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I'd give them the link to the NTSB db and

N T S B - Aviation Accidents - Index of Months

have them look for incidents/accidents:
1. In the type of plane they are training in
2. In and around the area the are flying
3. The actual "N" number they're flying (3 planes I've flown are there, fortunately I was not)
4. Have them realize the # reportable per day/month etc.

VFR into IMC and Fuel Starvation/Exhaustion are prevalent - even for non-students.

The query link (for a/c type, or location, etc) is : NTSB Aviation Database Query Page
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:32 AM
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Thanks for that link Moony Man!

Just for kicks I threw in the N number of my first love, and it came back with an incident that happened to me back in 1980!! I'm amazed it goes that far back!

NYC81IA018


I do take exception with their 'findings', i.e. inadequate preflight?? The friggn' side window blew out at FL200! Sucked my arm right out, I'm glad I had my seatbelt on! And there were 3 bullet sized holes in the side of the fuselage, angled from up above!

The investigator I talked with at the time said it was most likely we got hit by "Space Junk", which shattered the window and put the holes in the side of the airframe. It sounded like a shotgun blast in my ear and my head was slammed against the top of the window frame, which kept most of me in the airplane.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by UnderOveur View Post
Here it is...

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR79-05.pdf


What other NTSB reports would you recommend or think student pilots should read? Why?
I would need to dig out the binder for all the specific reports. However a reason I like students and new pilots to read some reports is for them to understand that something not only can happen, but did in fact happen. It helps with the teaching vs telling issue. You can tell and warn until you are blue in the face; many times someone clearly seeing actual results of lack of sufficient knowledge or warnings or lessons going unheeded can make a big difference. While not limited to, most of it deals with the more common types of accidents and incidents. People continue to get themselves and others killed over things that are easily avoided. That is a huge problem alone, without even getting into the more technical or bizarre stuff.
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:35 AM
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Another question comes to mind, related to the OP...

When do you begin having such conversations with students?

Don't wanna scare 'em off, but I think most here would agree they need to know this stuff.
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by UnderOveur View Post
Another question comes to mind, related to the OP...

When do you begin having such conversations with students?

Don't wanna scare 'em off, but I think most here would agree they need to know this stuff.
When would you start to tell a teen of the dangers of driving.
I think they need to know the serious of the undertaking from day 1.

No need to try and scare sense into them from the start; but letting them know that flying is serious and options can be rare up in the air is just being prudent.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by UnderOveur View Post
Another question comes to mind, related to the OP...

When do you begin having such conversations with students?

Don't wanna scare 'em off, but I think most here would agree they need to know this stuff.

Not on the disco flight, but most certainly before solo. Probably wait until they have developed some basic comfort with stick and rudder flying.

The three things which will kill a PPL the fastest, in inverse order of the likely-hood of recovery:

1) Mid-air
2) Slow base-to-final turn
3) VFR into IMC

I emphasize these throughout training, and needless to say there are plenty of NTSB reports to help make the point.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:06 AM
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When I started teaching my son to fly, I told him, "This is much easier than driving, you only have to worry about one idiot in an airplane, but that idiot is YOU! And guess what? Gravity don't give a sh*t about you, and you can't just pull over and think about it if something goes wrong. That's why you have to think about what you are going to do BEFORE you ever get into the airplane."

Flying is not hard. Every airplane will fly all by itself if you just let go of it.

But hitting the ground too hard will ruin your day. You have to learn how -not- to do that. That's the tricky part.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by UnderOveur View Post
Another question comes to mind, related to the OP...

When do you begin having such conversations with students?

Don't wanna scare 'em off, but I think most here would agree they need to know this stuff.
That is the age old question. Some instructors are also reluctant to expose students to accelerated stalls and spin recovery training as well for similar reasons. That is just doing the student, their PAX and potentially the public at large a big disservice. I would much rather a student be a little scared and competent that incompetent and dead. The additional knowledge, if presented properly, will lead to increased competence and confidence which will overide the negative effects of fear. Many fears are, in fact, based on the fear of the unknown. At various points during their training and future flying they are going to be scared anyway... As the saying goes "You can't call yourself a pilot unless you have an instrument rating and have scared the _ _ _ _ out of yourself at least three times"... One of the best methods of employing the accident report data is to spoon feed it, vs I'd like you to read all these reports, before we really get started, and become thouroughly freaked out about your decision to become a pilot. You don't want to wait until the end either as the reports can be useful as a training tool; and also that once you are done with them and they have their certificate they are free to do any stupid thing they care. Incorporate the report information as applicable into a particular lesson. For instance, along with a lesson on wake turbulence you can go over a scenario such as the accident at KSNA with the Boeing and the Westwind.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I think they need to know the serious of the undertaking from day 1.

No need to try and scare sense into them from the start; but letting them know that flying is serious and options can be rare up in the air is just being prudent.
I tend to agree with this. For example, I reference Helios Airways Flt 522 (2005) to stress the importance of using checklists, no matter how well one thinks he/she knows it.


Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Not on the disco flight, but most certainly before solo. Probably wait until they have developed some basic comfort with stick and rudder flying.
Absolutely. Never on an intro/discovery flight. Gotta sink the hook in first!


Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
The three things which will kill a PPL the fastest, in inverse order of the likely-hood of recovery:

1) Mid-air
2) Slow base-to-final turn
3) VFR into IMC

I emphasize these throughout training, and needless to say there are plenty of NTSB reports to help make the point.

Yep. I reference JFK Jr. re: #3 and other known dangers such as spatial disorientation and visibility issues like haze and lost horizons; seems like everyone remembers it. I'm going to start using Yoda's suggestion re: the San Diego disaster for #1.

Does anyone have a reference for #2 that is particularly memorable?
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