Captain Bligh

Remember that sim scenario I mentioned where we did all the visual pattern stuff? One of the things in that module was an extremely high deck angle recovery at low altitude. I specifically remember being at full thrust with a deck angle of near or over 30 degrees aircraft nose up and an indicated speed of near 90 knots. The airplane was still flying and was able to both climb and recover to a more normal attitude. Intermittent stick shaker activation and kissing the whiskers of the pitch limit indicator was part of the profile.

Extreme? No doubt and who knows how accurate the sim replicates, but with exposure to those extremes in the training environment, at the very least there's more encouragement to not let it happen in the first place.

unitedflyier

The people on UA855 were so lucky not to be involved. Any news from the crew on what they saw? I saw the video on CNN.

I saw them getting towed back. Must of been horrific for the passengers to watch and then be helpless to act and help out.

This could have been so much worse. Sorry for 2 deaths and those critically injured.

F15andMD11

Yea, I understand what you're saying about rusty but...not impressed. For a ferry flt sure. But a revenue flt no! I've watched guys shut-off the automation. "Look what a good pilot I am." What do you think the media's and the company's reaction will be when they learn you have the automation off and you were, God forbid, involved in a mishap. Especially those with safety redundancies like auto throttles. You'd be hung out to dry. Just wait until we learn Asiana had AT off. The pilots will be even more roasted. IMO once you're in the big leagues flying heavy metal those "look at me" days are over!! For your passengers sake!! Sorry, I'll get off my soap box. Just my safety training.

contrails

Your mentality is a bit bizarre in my opinion, as a pilot should be expected and trained to use the level of automation that is appropriate to the situation.

Stubbornly refusing to ever turn the automation off earlier than usual is not appropriate and there are plenty of scenarios where no automation is called for.

I will never fly the LGA Expressway Visual 31 or DCA River Visual 19 with the autopilot.

Do you think I am reckless?

It's not about "look at me I can fly." I'm not sure where you get that, but it's not from any of the pilots I've ever sat next to in 121 so far.

It's about maintaing some semblance of stick and rudder skills because not matter what your airplane's automation can do, you need to be able to do the same -- because some computer chip may have other plans for you on the arrival some day and you're gonna be back to the basics until the wheels are on the ground.

BE02Driverz

Speaking only in the USA/ FAA structured airlines, some more specific SIM training could help us all. Unless your company has a custom SIM training program approved by the FAA you get the "canned" training wherein the FAA dictates exactly what has to be covered for each PC/PT event. Usually making the SIM time rushed and without the luxury of trying anything ourside of the FAA training curriculum.

Airhoss

I'll just say that from the outside it's easy to sit here and say, how could this happen? But having been flown a brain dead approach after a pacific crossing and having seen some of the stupid stuff that guys do when they are dead tired I have to say that yeah I can see how you could get started down that road.
The major cultural difference being that you'd have one or two or three others guys forcefully pointing out your error before it became dangerous. Or so we'd hope any way.

DiamondZ

Costs $$$.

Every airline is trying to cut costs on 'additional' training above required minimums.

syd111

Sorry I turn off the automation not to say look what a good pilot I am but to keep skill levels for times when the automation might not be available. I guess do it how you like but there are many in the training areas that are concerned with pilots being to reliant on automation, but hey to each their own I guess.

MD11Fr8Dog

At 7s prior to impact, the reported airspeed call was a completely inappropriate call. It should have been "unstable, go around" instead.

F15andMD11

Because I have sat next to one or two.
Valid point, of course you shut-off AP when required. I'm just thinking about the AT I guess.