32LTangoTen

Although I agree that safety should come prior to money. I will say that this new fuel technology wouldn't have helped the UPS pilots in BHM. I'd say their passing had all to do with G forces (assuming no toxic smoke was present).

RIP Cerea and Shanda.

USMCFLYR

My comments were not directed at the present investigation or the survivability of that particular mishap, but rather at my first realization that safety was in fact NOT first or foremost and that money did play a factor. The testing was done in 1984:
Controlled Impact Demonstration (1984) Aircraft Crash Test Using AMK Fuel - YouTube

32LTangoTen

Rog! Comprehension was always a short coming!

ShyGuy

UPS pilots warned of low altitude seven seconds before crash | Reuters



On a side note, how does a 23 year UPS guy only have 8,600 hrs total time?



Edit: From the NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/17/us...rash.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — Sixteen seconds before a U.P.S. cargo plane crashed on approach to the airport in Birmingham, Ala., on Wednesday morning, an automated system in the cockpit warned that the aircraft, an Airbus A300, was descending too fast, a member of the National Transportation Safety Board said Friday.

The warning was captured on the cockpit voice recorder, which was recovered from the wreckage on Thursday.

Three seconds after the warning — in the form of a mechanical voice saying, “Sink rate, sink rate” — one of the two pilots told the other that the runway was in sight, according to the safety board member, Robert Sumwalt, who was at the crash site. Then, nine seconds before the end of the recording, there are “sounds that are consistent with impact,’’ Mr. Sumwalt said.

The plane came down outside the fence at Birmingham-Shuttlesworth International Airport, hitting the trees and then the ground north of the airfield. Both pilots were killed.

Investigators have also recovered the flight data recorder, he said, but he did not discuss its contents.

Mr. Sumwalt’s remarks were the investigators’ first substantive comments on the crash.

The captain of the U.P.S. plane had worked for the company since 1990 and had extensive experience — 8,600 hours of flight time, including 3,200 hours in the A300, Mr. Sumwalt said. The first officer had worked for U.P.S. since 2006. She had 6,500 hours of experience, including 400 in the A300, he said.

Nosmo King

Not that its relevant but I can think of a few reasons:

1. Sat reserve a lot and didnt fly.
2. Long term medical leave with subsequent return to flight status.
3. Union work.
4. Took a management position in flight ops.
5. Military leaves/recall to active duty.
6. Flight engineer time not included.
7. Instructed a lot in sims.

Swedish Blender

You could get hired back in the early to mid 90s with a lot less time than those being hired post 2001.

In seven years, I think I've logged less than 2000 hours at UPS. I fly the most ever now on the MD11 and that's about 300 hours a year as a line holder.

My low was bidding reserve on the 757 on purpose and I flew less than 100 for a year.

As a side note, I know a captain who was hired in 1989 who hopes to retire with less than 5000 hours. Senior and bids reserve.

ShyGuy

300 hrs as a lineholder per year? That would mean ~25 hrs per month on the MD11. Isn't that literally just one trip from SDF to Europe and back? What kind of regular line blocks only 25 hrs, unless you're on union leave/military/FMLA/etc?

Swedish Blender

It's not as hard as you think.
I had vacation in June and didn't turn a wheel.
I had 6 month training in January dropped an eleven day trip, and IRO'd one leg ANC-PVG.
(training every 6 months for the 747/MD pilots both seats)
Last month I dropped a 12 day trip for 12 month training.
I have one 12 day trip this month with a total block of about 45 hours, but since it's all 3 man legs, you get 2/3 of the time.
Bid a trip that carries into the next bid and conflict it with a trip in the new bid so it gets dropped.
I fly all international.

For the months of June, July and August, I will block about 70 hours total and 2 landings.

A line I hope to get next bid has 48 hours block in the 1st 4 week span and 25 hours block in the 2nd 4 week span.

80ktsClamp

Sounds like they signed in around 2030 and flew Rockford-Peoria-Louisville-Birmingham that night.

Shyguy- Freighters, particularly on the domestic categories tend to do what we would call highspeeds several nights a week, and that's it. Except instead of a hotel, they are in the hub for the sort. Their lines are mostly credit and very low block.

ShyGuy

Ahh makes sense, I see.

80kts, where did you find their schedule that night? Press article?