Children of Magenta
Children of Magenta
08-21-2013, 06:40 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
Classic, but you know there are pilots out there that would view this as dated and just the musings of doddering old fools.
I find the comment about the Bucharest accident ("if only he had had his hands on the throttles') interesting in that, when this was made, American Airlines had no aircraft in the fleet that had non-moving thrust levers.
I find the comment about the Bucharest accident ("if only he had had his hands on the throttles') interesting in that, when this was made, American Airlines had no aircraft in the fleet that had non-moving thrust levers.
08-21-2013, 07:57 AM
#4
Retired
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: whale wrangler
Posts: 3,527
Originally Posted by Dougdrvr
Classic, but you know there are pilots out there that would view this as dated and just the musings of doddering old fools.
I find the comment about the Bucharest accident ("if only he had had his hands on the throttles') interesting in that, when this was made, American Airlines had no aircraft in the fleet that had non-moving thrust levers.
I find the comment about the Bucharest accident ("if only he had had his hands on the throttles') interesting in that, when this was made, American Airlines had no aircraft in the fleet that had non-moving thrust levers.
GoBlue ,your welcome .
08-22-2013, 07:14 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 551
I agree, but also we need to ensure that if people are going to use the automation and gadgetry, they know 100% how it works. There have been more than a few accidents caused by misprogramming the box and then failing to monitor what it's doing.
08-22-2013, 09:56 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by MrBojangles
I agree, but also we need to ensure that if people are going to use the automation and gadgetry, they know 100% how it works. There have been more than a few accidents caused by misprogramming the box and then failing to monitor what it's doing.
One of the things I observed in the MD-88 with folks just coming out of the school house, was that while they had an understanding of what mode they were in at the moment, they would be confused as to what mode it would transition to next, particularly with respect to the auto-throttles. For example, I can't count the number of times I watched someone try to make a crossing restriction with the boards up and the throttles at "Low Limit". And I did many of the same things when new to the airplane because most of FMC training was off the printed page and many of the nuances of auto flight was passed off with "You'll get that on IOE". With the advent of dedicated desk top style FMC simulations things improved but there was still a gap in what you would have the opportunity to experience in the time constraints of the full blown sim and out on the line. It took a long time to get confident with knowing "what will it do next" and then when it didn't, the discipline to go "Click.......Click".
08-22-2013, 10:30 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 551
Originally Posted by Dougdrvr
Couldn't agree more but I think the major point of this gentleman's presentation was/is that there is such a strong tendency for pilots to try to correct automation errors within the automation itself while the airplane is still covering X miles per minute.
One of the things I observed in the MD-88 with folks just coming out of the school house, was that while they had an understanding of what mode they were in at the moment, they would be confused as to what mode it would transition to next, particularly with respect to the auto-throttles. For example, I can't count the number of times I watched someone try to make a crossing restriction with the boards up and the throttles at "Low Limit". And I did many of the same things when new to the airplane because most of FMC training was off the printed page and many of the nuances of auto flight was passed off with "You'll get that on IOE". With the advent of dedicated desk top style FMC simulations things improved but there was still a gap in what you would have the opportunity to experience in the time constraints of the full blown sim and out on the line. It took a long time to get confident with knowing "what will it do next" and then when it didn't, the discipline to go "Click.......Click".
One of the things I observed in the MD-88 with folks just coming out of the school house, was that while they had an understanding of what mode they were in at the moment, they would be confused as to what mode it would transition to next, particularly with respect to the auto-throttles. For example, I can't count the number of times I watched someone try to make a crossing restriction with the boards up and the throttles at "Low Limit". And I did many of the same things when new to the airplane because most of FMC training was off the printed page and many of the nuances of auto flight was passed off with "You'll get that on IOE". With the advent of dedicated desk top style FMC simulations things improved but there was still a gap in what you would have the opportunity to experience in the time constraints of the full blown sim and out on the line. It took a long time to get confident with knowing "what will it do next" and then when it didn't, the discipline to go "Click.......Click".
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
