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172 flips over in fairfield.

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172 flips over in fairfield.

Old 04-21-2014, 06:19 AM
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Default 172 flips over in fairfield.

Small plane crash lands, flips over at New Jersey airport | PIX 11

Ugh I don't want to end up like that with a rental plane.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by evamodel00 View Post
Small plane crash lands, flips over at New Jersey airport | PIX 11

Ugh I don't want to end up like that with a rental plane.
Declines medical attention to his leg. What about medical attention to ones pride after that.
Hang your head and scoot away from the scene.

Glad all were ok
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Old 04-21-2014, 06:28 PM
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Note that this occurred 2/17/14
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:19 PM
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Maybe it's just sleeping.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:36 PM
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If you've just touched down in a 172 at say 60 knots and you're not completely straight, can too much right rudder/nose wheel turning flip you over on your side in a tricycle gear plane? I get a little nervous sometimes pumping in a lot of rudder at once.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by evamodel00 View Post
If you've just touched down in a 172 at say 60 knots and you're not completely straight, can too much right rudder/nose wheel turning flip you over on your side in a tricycle gear plane? I get a little nervous sometimes pumping in a lot of rudder at once.
I hope you aren't touching down at 60kts, you may approach at 60-65kts, but you're going to slow down, arrest your descent rate, and touch down at a speed far slower than 60kts. The reason I'm stressing this is that touching down at 60kts would require forcing the aircraft on the runway, which would make a pilot induced oscillation likely. While more rare in tricycle aircraft, they are still possible and I've seen the effects (there are some videos too).

Otherwise, it's pretty hard to flip a tricycle gear airplane if you are doing things halfway right and understand it.

If you touch down and are you were drifting sideways just prior to touching down, you'll still be drifting sideways on the runway after touching down. Physics say a body in motion will remain in motion. If you try to swing the nose around to bring it back to the middle because it's drifting (like you would a car), it's the completely incorrect control input and you might stuff one of the landing gear into a taxi light, sign or the soft edge of the dirt, thereby greatly increasing the chances of flipping it. Tailwheel makes a tricycle seem like cake though.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
I hope you aren't touching down at 60kts, you may approach at 60-65kts, but you're going to slow down, arrest your descent rate, and touch down at a speed far slower than 60kts. The reason I'm stressing this is that touching down at 60kts would require forcing the aircraft on the runway, which would make a pilot induced oscillation likely. While more rare in tricycle aircraft, they are still possible and I've seen the effects (there are some videos too).

Otherwise, it's pretty hard to flip a tricycle gear airplane if you are doing things halfway right and understand it.

If you touch down and are you were drifting sideways just prior to touching down, you'll still be drifting sideways on the runway after touching down. Physics say a body in motion will remain in motion. If you try to swing the nose around to bring it back to the middle because it's drifting (like you would a car), it's the completely incorrect control input and you might stuff one of the landing gear into a taxi light, sign or the soft edge of the dirt, thereby greatly increasing the chances of flipping it. Tailwheel makes a tricycle seem like cake though.
yes sorry that's what I meant was a 60-65kt approach.

I'm a bit confused by what you said after though (excuse the ignorance please). You're saying if you are for instance drifting towards the left side of the runway, and you bring the nose around with right rudder, that is an incorrect control input?
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by evamodel00 View Post
yes sorry that's what I meant was a 60-65kt approach.

I'm a bit confused by what you said after though (excuse the ignorance please). You're saying if you are for instance drifting towards the left side of the runway, and you bring the nose around with right rudder, that is an incorrect control input?
And that's what you'd do with a car. Trying to "turn" it back is more like driving a car or being at taxi speeds, but the airplane is still "flying" if you've just landed. You need to counter drift with the right control, which is aileron. If you are trying to reverse your drift, you need aileron and rudder. Keep in mind that trying to turn at excessive speed on the ground can "tip" the airplane, and it becomes all that much more amplified when the airplane was already drifting in that direction, leading to a "flip" or ending up something other than right side up given how much energy was involved in the situation. I've seen lots of people "let go" of wind correction once the tires touch the ground, or not correlate to use the same corrections to correct a situation where you are off the centerline or moving towards an edge. These people usually over-relied on the nosewheel steering/rudder to do what they needed. Much of the time they get away with this with no issue, but every once and a while, it bites back.
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Old 04-23-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
And that's what you'd do with a car. Trying to "turn" it back is more like driving a car or being at taxi speeds, but the airplane is still "flying" if you've just landed. You need to counter drift with the right control, which is aileron. If you are trying to reverse your drift, you need aileron and rudder. Keep in mind that trying to turn at excessive speed on the ground can "tip" the airplane, and it becomes all that much more amplified when the airplane was already drifting in that direction, leading to a "flip" or ending up something other than right side up given how much energy was involved in the situation. I've seen lots of people "let go" of wind correction once the tires touch the ground, or not correlate to use the same corrections to correct a situation where you are off the centerline or moving towards an edge. These people usually over-relied on the nosewheel steering/rudder to do what they needed. Much of the time they get away with this with no issue, but every once and a while, it bites back.

ah ok thanks for the clarification. I did a lot of reading on it today and i believe I just need many more days practicing in the pattern. I'm also going to try and see if an instructor will teach me on his tailwheel plane. I'm assuming jumping to something less forgiving will whip me into shape to stay on that centerline.
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Old 04-23-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by evamodel00 View Post
ah ok thanks for the clarification. I did a lot of reading on it today and i believe I just need many more days practicing in the pattern. I'm also going to try and see if an instructor will teach me on his tailwheel plane. I'm assuming jumping to something less forgiving will whip me into shape to stay on that centerline.
Maybe, but you have to mess up at least a little and correct to learn IMO. Tailwheel airplanes are inherently unstable on the ground, which *can* be good for learning. Tricycle airplanes are much more stable, yet they are nothing like a car with wheels at all the edges. Despite this, you'll see people taxiing both kinds of airplanes at speeds that blow your mind, and those people are just tempting fate for the one time something happens before they can react or their reaction causes the airplane to tip over due to the excessive speed. As speed increases (or the wind increases) the airplane starts "flying" more and more. At those speeds your directional control is the rudder, but your lateral control becomes the ailerons. Directional control just means where the nose is pointing, NOT where the aircraft is going (path). You can have all the directional control in the world and still slide into a parked airplane or object. At the higher speeds on the ground the aileron doesn't necessarily "skid" the aircraft the direction you want to go, but it does counter the centrifugal force in the turn, that would otherwise cause the aircraft to start skidding sideways or topple the aircraft as the turn is attempted. You'll learn or have learned about x-wind corrections on the runway during takeoff and landing. Apply this to any time you are moving at a high speed on the runway and not on centerline. Control and vigilance will usually be the result
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