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3 Dead, 2 Injured - Frederick, MD

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3 Dead, 2 Injured - Frederick, MD

Old 10-24-2014, 05:43 AM
  #11  
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So sorry to hear of your loss. Nothing sadder than a fine pilot going down by no fault of his own.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:10 AM
  #12  
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That audio... ugh... RIP, sorry mspano.
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:33 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by mspano85 View Post
ATC messed up bad. She cleared the Cirrus after he told her he couldn't see the 3rd helo.

I've worked with her a lot when I've flown. She's always on the ball. I think she just got complacent....
Sorry to hear about the tragedy.

Why do you say "ATC messed up" - do you have inside information? It is not clear to me what happened, and any number of scenarios (cirrus below TPA or heli at TPA) seem to be consistent with the incident.

I am cleared to land all the time without traffic in sight, usually with instructions (cleared to land on runway, heli traffic will remain north of associated taxiway).

It is a stark reminder that delta provides sequencing, NOT separation services.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:45 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Sorry to hear about the tragedy.

Why do you say "ATC messed up" - do you have inside information? It is not clear to me what happened, and any number of scenarios (cirrus below TPA or heli at TPA) seem to be consistent with the incident.

I am cleared to land all the time without traffic in sight, usually with instructions (cleared to land on runway, heli traffic will remain north of associated taxiway).

It is a stark reminder that delta provides sequencing, NOT separation services.
Agreed. Her job was to separate and not sequence. She told the Cirrus to maintain altitude until turning base leg. It seems at FDK the pattern altitude for fixed wing props is 1,000 AGL and for helos is 700AGL. The articles I've read said the helo was doing pattern work. So if the Cirrus was suppose to maintain 1,000AGL until turning base, and the helo was maintaining 700AGL in his pattern, then the question becomes who wasn't where they were supposed to be? Looking at midairs in traffic patterns, the curplrit is usually the new entrant to the pattern. It's too early to say for sure of course, and that's what the investigation is for.
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:58 PM
  #15  
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Today we went out and celebrated Chris's Life. It was a really nice gathering.

I rescind my statement about ATC. After talking with JP and Keith today, they said She did everything right.

From what I was able to gather, the accident happened when the Cirrus was turning from downwind to base. Altitude was unknown. The Cirrus clipped the top of the R44 in the middle of the turn. They ruled out wind as a factor.

An admission from the group, and other pilots was that Chris was the best at autorotations. If there was any way to safely put it in the ground, he would have done it. Unfortunately, it was one of those helpless moments.

We have a very dangerous profession and hobby. Be safe every one.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:26 PM
  #16  
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Amazing that the BRS deployed and worked at that altitude, but a little reading revealed it's worked down to around 400' and can go even lower. Unfortunately a low wing aircraft hitting the top of something doesn't look good.

Although it may have nothing to do with this, it's amazing how many pilots I fly with just assume there is nothing in their way and turn without either dipping and looking, or lifting and looking. I try to tell them that one time, some day, you'll do that (lift/dip before the turn) and there will be an aircraft right there. It's happened to me.
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:28 PM
  #17  
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So sorry to hear about your friend. So very sad.. I will pray for the families and friends who are grieving.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:57 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by mspano85 View Post
Today we went out and celebrated Chris's Life. It was a really nice gathering.

I rescind my statement about ATC. After talking with JP and Keith today, they said She did everything right.

From what I was able to gather, the accident happened when the Cirrus was turning from downwind to base. Altitude was unknown. The Cirrus clipped the top of the R44 in the middle of the turn. They ruled out wind as a factor.

An admission from the group, and other pilots was that Chris was the best at autorotations. If there was any way to safely put it in the ground, he would have done it. Unfortunately, it was one of those helpless moments.

We have a very dangerous profession and hobby. Be safe every one.
It is understandable that in your pain, you jumped to point blame. And it is honorable to rescind your statement.

The reality of this work is almost all of us will lose friends/coworkers to it. I have lost 4 friends and 7coworkers. It sucks. But as you have done, we remember and celebrate them. And we move on. We must: they wouldn't want us to do otherwise.

My sincerest condolences to you and their loved ones.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:24 PM
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Thank you, Everyone for the kind words. I understand this is kind of thing that comes with the territory in our profession. Though, it doesn't make it easier.

It could be any of us tomorrow so don't take your time for granted and try to appreciate and enjoy every moment you can, especially with others.

Be the best and most responsible pilots we can be.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:27 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Although it may have nothing to do with this, it's amazing how many pilots I fly with just assume there is nothing in their way and turn without either dipping and looking, or lifting and looking. I try to tell them that one time, some day, you'll do that (lift/dip before the turn) and there will be an aircraft right there. It's happened to me.
Excellent advice. I find myself doing this more and more when cruising straight and level too. After this accident, and your reply, I'm going to get in the habit of doing it in the pattern as well.

Thank you
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