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-   -   Not understanding AoA indicators... (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/84956-not-understanding-aoa-indicators.html)

FDXLAG 10-19-2015 03:36 AM

A freight pilot talking about AOA how preposterous, that would be like some doctor talking about aviation.

Read the title, what does it say. Not understanding AOA indicators. Yep you are definitely qualified to post in this thread. You may be the only one.

METO Guido 10-19-2015 04:53 AM

Cardio Quack is fronting a GA instrument provider, using us to make his case. False flag genius really.

Hetman 10-19-2015 03:39 PM

You can't really tell from an internet message board whether this guy is a good pilot, a good doctor, or both or neither.

What you can tell is that he is a pretty good fisherman.

METO Guido 10-20-2015 04:46 AM

Can tell a thinly veiled a$$ wiping of two professions when I see one.

I respect physicians. As do I the nurses, paramedics and lab techs that save lives of parents, husbands, wives and kids every day. Sanctimonious sock puppets don’t especially bother me, goes with the territory. But if we don’t take the time to defend the value of our work, our responsibilities, from those who would casually dismiss it; who will?

BTW McQuack, anytime, anywhere…

FDXLAG 10-20-2015 11:07 AM

Wait that thing has a clock, sweet.

USMCFLYR 10-22-2015 03:24 PM

Nicely said FAAST



Quote:
FAAST Blast — Week of October 18-24, 2015
Biweekly FAA Safety Briefing News Update


New Video on Angle of Attack Awareness Now on YouTube

Angle of Attack (AoA) devices can provide valuable information during maneuvering flight and have been identified as a mitigation strategy to prevent loss of control accidents.

Watch this video for an analysis of AoA devices in the general aviation (GA) environment. It promotes FAA policy concerning non-required/supplemental AoA based systems for GA airplanes. Use this information to make an informed, yet personal decision about what is the right choice for you. Every pilot is different, and every device has advantages and disadvantages for each individual in each aircraft type.

On YouTube:
https://youtu.be/8JcjWnAJGKQ


Pavedickey 10-24-2015 07:46 PM

I think that is where the disconnect lies. The posters here are truly unfamiliar with the way that GA pilots, airfoils, and operations take place, and want to force your way of flying / thinking onto them. This is why my experiences are similar to expert GA pilots, not freight dogs or jet jocks. Unless you are pulling G's in the pattern, ASI give appropriate info and safety margin. If you are pulling G's in the patten or don't have a good feel for the airplane, then IMO you have bigger problems.

--------
This is where your argument lacks strength. The Pilatus PC-12 comes from the factory with a dual AOA system and is integral to flying this GA aircraft. The Airfoil is the same as your 182, so having an AOA indicator based solely on a specific airfoil shape isn't necessarily accurate. That's why Pilatus thought it was a critical component to help single-pilot doctors and lawyers from killing themselves in this thing. The airspeed indicator is nearly useless if you lose the engine on takeoff and have to execute a turn-back to the runway. You don't have time to look up what your L/D Max speed will be for each of the different flap setting you'll need during that maneuver. AOA provides your realtime energy state to prevent a stall and allow you to maximize the glide distance if necessary, or manage excess energy if necessary, that simply flying a set airspeed will not provide.

------
I'd say judge by the scoreboard, not naiive idealism. I don't fly my 182 anywhere near the edges of the envelope (without intentionally doing so), and an AOA gauge would not help my type of flying. After the initial fun factor I'd rarely even look at it.

-----
You don't fly near the edge of the envelope until something unexpected happens and you have to. Having an AOA indication system may make the difference between success and failure. Once you've flown with an AOA indicator, you'll pay as much attention to it as you do the airspeed indicator.

cardiomd 11-01-2015 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 1995254)
A freight pilot talking about AOA how preposterous, that would be like some doctor talking about aviation.


Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 1985608)
What little I remember about light airplanes

Sorry about your straw man. Again, AOA info is essential for freight pilots and transport-category jets and aircraft that go high. It is not essential for GA aircraft. Experts with a great deal of experience flying 172s/182s a lot should be making rules for people that fly 172s and 182s a lot, not freight pilots who remember "little about light airplanes" yet somehow became self-declared experts on aerodynamic theory and human factors. You don't act like fellow engineers (we tend to be data driven) so I'm wondering what your background is?


Originally Posted by Hetman (Post 1995645)
You can't really tell from an internet message board whether this guy is a good pilot, a good doctor, or both or neither.

What you can tell is that he is a pretty good fisherman.

Please clarify? We all ultimately judge proficiency by events - after 1000 hours if somebody is confident, safe, with no close calls or "incidents" I would deem them a competent pilot. It is telling (worrisome perhaps) that people think that AOA is some sort of "advanced" concept instead of something taught at day 1 (well, maybe day 2) of flight training.

I agree it is hard to tell genius from idiocy on a message board. However, over time it tends to become obvious who is knowledgeable, reasonable and who is a zealot.


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 1998061)
Nicely said FAAST

AOPA had a nice AOA advocacy video too a few weeks ago... sponsored by Aspen Avionics. Had the same information and one-sided advocacy. Take a look if you are a member (under safety videos):

General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA

Install your AOA sensor when you downgrade to a piston single, I don't care! Just don't advocate for nonsensical regulation or tell other pilots what they "need" to fly, or think that it alone will increase safety. :rolleyes: Reminds me how some Cirrus pilots "need" a parachute to be safe. Not going to argue that.

USMCFLYR 11-02-2015 03:12 AM


Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 2003856)
AOPA had a nice AOA advocacy video too a few weeks ago... sponsored by Aspen Avionics. Had the same information and one-sided advocacy. Take a look if you are a member (under safety videos):

General Aviation's largest, most influential association in the world - AOPA

Install your AOA sensor when you downgrade to a piston single, I don't care! Just don't advocate for nonsensical regulation or tell other pilots what they "need" to fly, or think that it alone will increase safety. :rolleyes: Reminds me how some Cirrus pilots "need" a parachute to be safe. Not going to argue that.

You must have missed the part quoted below from my post - either that or you just see one-sided advocacy everywhere you look.


Use this information to make an informed, yet personal decision about what is the right choice for you. Every pilot is different, and every device has advantages and disadvantages for each individual in each aircraft type.

cardiomd 11-10-2015 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by USMCFLYR (Post 2003884)
You must have missed the part quoted below from my post - either that or you just see one-sided advocacy everywhere you look.

Great, then we agree, and your disclaimer then mirrors my position.

If you need this thing to fly a light GA plane:
https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M40...=0&w=300&h=300

then go ahead and spend your $3000. You are correct, every pilot is different. :rolleyes: (but stop attempting to tell others what they need to fly safely.)


Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 1994538)
If you need one in your GA plane, go ahead and install one! I never stop anybody from improving their own safety, but don't legislate for others. My "position" remains unchanged! :)



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