METO Guido

Straying from the thread but...one of my favorite lines.

"A good pilot is always compelled to always evaluate what’s happened, so he can apply what he’s learned."

Viper

rickair7777

Another way of saying it: If you're fortunate enough to survive your own mistakes, might as well learn from them.

Better of course to learn from the mistakes of others.

METO Guido

Agreed.

What I gather from his advice is acknowledgement, virtually every assignment will contain error/errors somewhere..typically minor, easily identified and corrected. On occasion, complexities result in a resolution process less well managed. It is now we have opportunity to look back & objectively evaluate our performance, removed from the moment, to consider whatever improvement deemed necessary. Flogging, no. Dispassionate self grading, always.

cardiomd

Thanks, 727. I appreciate your always sane input. I believe (hope?) it is only the extremely vocal bottom few who really have an inability to parse what I'm saying. It is not that controversial. By all objective measures that jet is a lot of plane for a newly rated pilot. Many of you have probably heard me on the radio as I travel back and forth across this great country of ours, and in the air, we are all pilots.

Ok point taken. I sometimes forget I'm not dealing with similar professionals to me, in the medical field there is a huge amount of black humor and it is not disrespectful, it is just a way to get people to say what they are all thinking in a disarming way, otherwise stress can eat you up. Where did I mock his death? I didn't - I offered condolences. We should all recognize that; we all wanted to be Maverick, I liked Top Gun as a young adult, and so did this guy. But his ego wrote a check that his body couldn't ca... ok I'll stop.

As 727 said 100 or 10000 hours you can learn from that.

And RadialGal, many would consider blasphemy worse than jokes about our own mortality... matter of perspective I guess.

Do you honestly believe that?

Anyway, the deceased had his rating a full 21 days before the fatal crash, and as I said purchased it 2 months before. This is a temptation for businessmen who can do these things.

Lake Erie Crash Pilot Was Rookie Flying Own Jet, Says NTSB

JohnBurke

We've established that he's not a new pilot. Your assumptions have been in error.

You don't know that he was "newly rated."

You don't know anything about his level of training, instruction, or rating.

You don't know anything about that airplane, nor is your experience adequate to make such an assessment.

The only "objective measure" to "establish" such a things is you, and you're neither credible nor objective, and you've established nothing. You cannot post, it seems, but to tell a lie.

True. You are dealing with professionals. You're on an aviation forum for professional pilots, and those responding to you are professional aviators.

You're not.

You're communicating with professionals, however. Ironically, you're the one who isn't.

I know a lot of line pilots who got their type a day or two before they went on the line flying passengers, cargo, etc, domestically and internationally.

Do you have a type rating? Do you know anything about receiving one, the standards required to obtain one, or the fact that one must perform to ATP standards regardless of the level of certification, when obtaining a type rating?

You don't understand that, do you?

rickair7777

JB,

Those newly typed pilots were on IOE. They had a check airman in the other seat. Once released to the line, they had either an experienced CA to back them up, or in the case of CA's thousands of hours of turbine experience to fall back on.

A brand-new solo jet pilot is not inherently safe. It's frankly one of the least safe things you can do in routine civil aviation.

I have flown with two newly typed jet pilots who could literally not keep the wings level in IMC without the AP. Turn off the AP, instant vertigo and JFK jr. style death-spiral. They didn't catch that in the sim apparently. Good thing I caught it, you can go weeks or months without hand-flying in clouds.

I'm still convinced that private pilots in jets is a real stretch. Insurance companies recognize this and often require IOE like supervision. It should probably be mandatory.

In addition to aviation instructor experience, I've survived decades of hazardous military operations on, above, and under the water in addition to the usual tactical stuff on land. I know hazards when I see them, and this has more in common with night halo, base jumping, and wingsuits than mundane civil aviation.

HuggyU2

It sounds to me that you've possibly had a lot more experience in working with owner/pilots in jets than I have... but based on what I've seen, I disagree.

I do hope you and I can meet someday... maybe at Oshkosh... and argue this over a few beers.

rickair7777

No my experience is a combination of entry-level RJ pilots, and PPL's in GA and TAA. I'm extrapolating the later into the former.

There are always exceptional individuals in any realm of endeavor, including PPL who own/fly jets, but I don't think the current training system is sufficiently robust to screen for that. If you're not an exceptional PPL, you don't belong in a jet. A mediocre professional pilot can fly jets because he has backup and/or experience. A jet is larger and can carry more pax, and thus can put more people at risk than typical piston aircraft.



Love to. I probably need to retire from the Navy first to have time to go to Oshkosh

JohnBurke

I've flown with newly typed pilots with zero prior turbojet experience in various aircraft who performed flawlessly. None of them were high time.

The military has a nasty habit of putting very young, very inexperienced pilots in some of the most expensive and highest performance turbojet aircraft that the world has to offer, loading them down with more firepower than the sum total of the second world war, and sending them into combat. Somehow, they manage.

BoilerUP

The military isn't afraid to wash out marginal performers...unlike FlightSafety and CAE.