Originally Posted by JohnBurke

You tell me who this "average gun owner" is.

I just got done with a week long training course. We fired 4,000 rounds, and focused on shooting responsibly, accurately, and quickly. The class was full of average gun owners. We had a plumber, a nurse, and all kinds of people from all kinds walks of life. Responsible shooters who took the time to invest in their training.

When the balloon goes up, when the bad guy starts to shoot, it's possible that there may be a police officer there. It's very likely, almost certain, that there won't be (else the bad guy wouldn't be shooting). If you're armed and your'e there, you can run and be shot in the back. You can cower behind your luggage and die with a bullet in your forehead. Or you can kill the bastard and end it, saving your own life if you're one of the self-centered trumps who happens to think that the bullets in your pistol are just for you. You'll be helping everyone else out at the same time, like it or not.

Do you know what the response is in many jurisdictions for an "active shooter?" It used to be grouping up, forming a practical tactical approach, always waiting for backup, then going in en force. Now the counsel to everyone on scene (men, women, children, goats) is run, hide, or fight. First responder goes in now, immediately, don't wait, don't hesitate, strike hard, fast. Waiting costs lives.

We used to train to give the airplane to the hijacker. Today...deny it at all costs, bar nothing. Times have changed. Keep up.



No, I'm not. I don't support a wrong point.

Police average a 20% hit ratio. Most police train very little, qualify with their firearm every four or six months or year, and far far too many shots vs. what's hit. Those who carry because they choose to (not because they must) often seek out training opportunities, and many of us aren't going to fire unless we're going to hit what we're shooting at. The criteria and rationale for taking the shot are very different. It is extremely unlikely if I shoot, I'm going to miss, and I'm very average. It may not be inside a 1" circle, but every shot I fire is going to go where I want it to go and it's going to happen very, very fast. Any one of those .357 Sig rounds is going to make for a very bad day for whomever is hit.



A "CC person?"

I can put six rounds into a target before the first brass hits the ground and I'm not that fast.

You know who stopped the Arizona shooting of Congresswoman Gifford? A little old lady, Patricia Maisch, grabbed the bad guy's magazine and held it, refusing to give it back. She didn't know what it was, but only that he couldn't keep shooting without it. The bad guy was grabbed by a 74 year old wounded retired colonel, and then taken down by to concealed carry holders. The two firearm holders did not shoot because they did not have a clear shot and were concerned about being able to put their rounds on target without injuring others. That's some responsible action on the part of all and what happens when people don't die cowering behind their luggage.

Every shoot is an "ambush." It's a rare thing that a bad guy yells "everyone get down on the floor and take cover before I start hurting people. I'll give you until the count of ten, ready or not, here I come." For some inexplicable reason, they just don't give that kind of warning any more, and nobody walks ten paces, turns and fires.



Yes, people can know. There are many myths out there. "You can't know what you'd do" is ridiculous. Can you imagine if we subscribed to that kind of stupidity in the cockpit? You can't know what you'd do in an emergency? We can know exactly what we'd do, and with great regularity, crews train to know and do, and carry out their training with great precision.

Not everyone cowers behind their luggage, and not everyone runs away from gunfire or flames.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

With your background and training, you're clearly not in that average bucket.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

I have friends in a previous state that conceal carry (nearly impossible to do where I am) and they do it with nothing more than the 8 hr day course required by the government and their own training/skill from shooting at the range on occasion.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

And your cockpit analogy is completely irrelevant. Apples and oranges to try and compare a cockpit emergency for which you trained for in the sim versus real life active shooter scenarios.

Originally Posted by JohnBurke

I said nothing about my background, and mentioned a singular training event. You paint with a broad, very inaccurate brush, and make a lot of assumptions.

Fact is, I'm about as average as you can possibly get. There is nothing remarkable about me as a person, pilot, or shooter. I don't even darken the doorstep of the "enthusiast" camp. Just an average guy with a few firearms.

Originally Posted by FishnHuntin

http://ktar.com/story/1421534/arizona-state-trooper-shot-traffic-accident-10-near-phoenix/

Hmmmm.

Originally Posted by ShyGuy

There was a certain German police force in a very famous terrorist incident that hatched a plan to take the terrorists down, but the plan ended up being botched from the get-go because some of those officers just didn't have the resolve to take out the human life.