Hey Everybody,

I currently have a question regarding, as you can tell, the ATP Certificate but more specifically the Aeronautical Experience reqs. Obviously you need the 1,500 hours TT (unless you're obtaining a restricted ATP), 500 hours x-country (reducible to 200), 100 hours night, 50 hours in the class sought, 75 hours Instrument, and there is one more main hour req. The question I have is regarding this final hour req. 250 hours PIC including 100 hours x-country and 25 hours night. I'm a FO at a Part 135 company and obviously I can only log the time as SIC. In FAR 61.159 (a)(5) it states:

(5) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least--

(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.

Furthermore, in FAR 61.159 (c)(1) it states:

(c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:


(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane--

(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane's flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;
(ii) Engaged in operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter for which a second in command is required; or

(iii) That is required by the operating rules of this chapter to have more than one pilot flight crew member.

My first question is: the airplane I fly is certified for single pilot operations by the FAA, however in the Ops Specs for my 135 carrier, its certified for a two pilot crew. I can log the flight time but can I use it towards the ATP?

Secondly, the regs state that I can log the time as SIC while performing the duties as PIC while under supervision of a PIC. What time can I count then towards the ATP when I'm SIC? The time I'm the PF? The time when I'm the PNF?

Thank you to everybody in advance who helps answer my questions.

Im going to keep this simple. Log SIC when ur typed in the plane on all legs. You can log the flights when u actually fly the plane as Pic time if appropriately rated for said plane. This time will only count for currency and ratings. If you have any questions and need professional advice contact your fsdo.

Common questions.

1. If an SIC is required under the 135 OPSPEC in use, then you can log that as SIC time. It is valid for all things FAA, and employers should be OK with it, although I would keep documentation to show that you met the requirements of 61.159 (copy of OPSPEC, records of your 135 training). Also part 91 legs do not require an SIC, so you cannot log those at all.

2. The provision for SIC performing the duties of PIC has NOTHING to do with who flew what legs. A number of airlines use this provision, and it requires a PREMEDITATED intention to allow the SIC to "act" as the PIC on the legs in question. Airlines will typically have the SIC keep a record of this, typically a sheet of paper signed by the PIC for each leg. You do not need to sit in the left seat, and should not unless trained for that (again has nothing to do with control manipulation).

So you need....
a. The PIC's concurrence in advance (not required by the regs, but it would be a really good idea to have the company's concurrence as well).
b. Act as the PIC on that leg.
c. Keep a record, not technically spelled out that you need the PIC's name and signature, but if you want DPE's to accept the time towards aeronautical experience you had better have that.

In summary, you cannot go back after the fact and claim that past SIC time was "performing the duties of the PIC". It has to be arranged in advance.