I have about 20 hours of IFF T-38 time, most of which was flown dual (with an IP in the back that didn't fly at all). Log this as PIC or student time?


Also. There's no way I can remember when I was dual in the FTU, but I have about 30 hours of FTU time in the D model, some of which had an IP in the back. Log this as PIC or student time?


I searched the forum, but really couldn't find a clear cut answer. Thanks.

I doubt you signed for the jet in IFF...don’t log that as PIC unless you were solo.

I’d say the same for your D model time.

Not an airline guy yet, but from the feedback I get from all my bros already there—being conservative is less likely to get you highlighted negatively.

I agree with W. For "airline PIC", you need to ignoree mil regs and FARs and just give them the PIC time they specifically define and ask for.

If you had an IP on board your aircraft, he's ultimately responsible for the jet and that's really what's behind the "signing for the aircraft" criterion most airlines use these days. If you can determine which sorties you were by yourself in IFF and FTU, then include those hours. Even if you can't figure out which specific sorties, if you know you had 5 IFF flights (based on the syllabus) solo and FTU required "X" dual rides, I'll be you could determine pretty accurately how many airline PIC hours you had in both programs.

I was a heavy guy who went on to be a T-6 IP to just give you perspective. When I was building my electronic
Flight books, I just made all UPT/PIT/even MQT as student time. There were solos in there, but I got to the point that I realized I’d rather explain why I took it all as student time than try to have discussion of whether or not I was really PIC. In all honesty, the 10-20 hours wasn’t gonna make or break whether I hit minimums or not.

Take it for what it’s worth. Also, it was SOO much easier to just lump it all as student time too than try to break it out and figure out what was what.

Got it - thanks!

Additional question, I am currently an FTU IP. During training I had back seat rides (did not sign for the jet) to gain a back seat landing qual. My guess is I cannot log this time as PIC? How would I log it?

Now in the future I can be put in the back seat to either lower a students PWC on a bad weather day or when they go to the tanker for the first time.

My guess is some of these days I may or may not sign for the A/C but I will be instructing. Would I log this just as instruction time or both Instruction/PIC?

For airline TPIC purposes, civilians will generally consider the sole instructor on board, if occupying a control station, to be the PIC absent any paperwork to the contrary. If someone else actually signed for the A/C then that person is technically the PIC, although an IP wouldn't have much luck excusing himself if there was an incident.

But I doubt any airline would ever argue that an IP flying with a student is anything other than the PIC. They would take that at face value.

You're either the PIC, and/or IP, or you're not. If you're not you're getting student/dual time(instruction received). If you're getting backseat qual'd you're a student. The IP is the PIC and logs it as such. You should log it as 'dual'. It's the same as student time.

A buddy landed short from the back seat on his first ride. Guess how long his time at the long green table lasted vs how long the IP's time lasted? That's the difference, he was the student and learning. The IP was responsible.

If you go up with a student, and are teaching them, getting them a new qual, you are the IP. IP time counts as PIC time.

I kept a separate column for PIC, solo, and CFI(IP) time. Combined they were my total PIC time.