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Zero IP Time and Need Career Advice

Old 05-05-2019, 02:38 PM
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Default Zero IP Time and Need Career Advice

I'm nearing a decision point and looking for some advice on my next career move.

I'm currently active duty Air Force stationed overseas with just over a year left until my DEROS ends and I must either extend or PCS. Also, my service commitment ends in just over 2.5 years. My end goal is to fly for one of the majors (ideally Delta, American, or Southwest based on domiciles) and fly part time in the Air Force reserves/guard. I'm not sure which of those two goals is more important to me at the time. As I have switched airframes, I only have about 2,000 total hours, 500 PIC, and zero IP/EP. I'll continue to work towards IP, but based on what I've seen at my squadron, getting to IP any time soon in my current plane will be a bit of a crapshoot based on available slots, seniority, and my own flying skills. As I see it, I have 3 options to push for and can't decide what will make me more competitive for both the airlines and a reserve/guard gig:

Option 1: Extend at my overseas location. If my extension gets approved, this would be the easiest option in terms of not moving again before I put in separation paperwork. My two biggest concerns are potentially not upgrading to IP (or having low IP time) and being overseas while job-hunting for a post-active duty career. Regardless of it I upgrade to IP, I could still reasonably expect to get another 500-600 PIC hours before I separate if I do this option.

Option 2: PCS to a stateside base. My home life will probably suffer, as I will likely get sent to an unfavorable location where I would deploy a lot. Otherwise, it would look similar to Option 1. However, I would be stateside for any job interviews, etc.

Option 3: Try to get a UPT instructor slot. This would guarantee that I both get to be stateside and get to rack up IP time. UPT locations aren't the best but I would be home most nights. Also, the way I read the new ADSC regulations (AFI 36-2107), I would only gain a 1-year ADSC based on an OCONUS to CONUS PCS. My concern with this option is that I would likely be blackballed in my current flying squadron and miss out on good flying opportunities, MWS IP upgrades, etc. Also, I'm not sure how it would look if I show up as a new UPT IP and put in separation paperwork within the first year.

I think that Options 1 & 2 would make more competitive to a reserve/guard squadron flying a similar plane, but I'm not sure about how it may look if I take Option 3.

Which of these options puts me in a more favorable position for major airline hiring?

Also, does anyone have experience applying to the majors while overseas and can speak to any concerns this might present?
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:30 AM
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Agree that some more PIC time would help, but hard to assess your flight time without knowing what platform. IP experience and time (any platform) would be more boxes to check on the app, which will bump your score.

Re. reserves... in the current hiring climate your top three career priorities should be:
1. Get hired at a Big Six Airline asap
2. Get hired at a Big Six Airline asap
3. Get hired at a Big Six Airline asap

Priorities 4-10 should be very similar to 1-3. Reserves would probably be about 11.

The only real employment impact of being overseas might be that you would not have a class date at the end of terminal leave and might have to bridge a gap of a few months.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:42 AM
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My info is not recent, but in addition to the 1 year ADSC for the PCS, PIT training used to carry a 3 year ADSC. Better look into that before taking Option 3. If you have made up your mind and are definitely getting out, I wouldn't be overly concerned about "how would it look" to the gaining or losing unit. Everyone is short and will need you to get the job done. Do it well and it won't matter in the long run.

Last edited by ExAF; 05-06-2019 at 07:45 AM. Reason: addition
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Old 05-06-2019, 08:05 AM
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I was hired by both DAL and UAL in mid 2014 with zero military IP time and < 2,000 TT/< 1,000 PIC (900 being fighters). A squadron mate got calls at DAL/UPS/FDX with pretty much the same times in 2016. Our apps were mostly the same except he had a much higher GPA than I. Where I think we got the edge was that we both had 121 regional time. If you get out with no calls, hop to a regional...I doubt you'd be there very long. In both my AAL and DAL indoc classes, there were mil guys who had gone to the regionals. A few were called within weeks of finishing their type ride and a few other were called at the 6 month point.

Best of luck
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Old 05-07-2019, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ExAF View Post
My info is not recent, but in addition to the 1 year ADSC for the PCS, PIT training used to carry a 3 year ADSC. Better look into that before taking Option 3. If you have made up your mind and are definitely getting out, I wouldn't be overly concerned about "how would it look" to the gaining or losing unit. Everyone is short and will need you to get the job done. Do it well and it won't matter in the long run.
^This. Since it'll be your initial qual in whatever white jet you are assigned, it will carry a 3 yr ADSC for formal flying training. If you're wanting to separate, I'd go with your option of staying in your current airframe and keep working hard to get IP. Good luck.
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Old 05-07-2019, 02:40 PM
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Thanks all for your insight.

ir: I was intentionally vague about my platform to keep some level of anonymity. However, it is all heavy time. I think you nailed it with the priorities!

Originally Posted by Beech Dude View Post
^This. Since it'll be your initial qual in whatever white jet you are assigned, it will carry a 3 yr ADSC for formal flying training.
& ExAF: As of 22 Oct 2018, they changed the ADSC reg to read no ADSC for any Advanced Flying Training Quals and it specifically includes the same for PIT. See Table 2.1, Rule 14 of AFI 36-2107 (https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2107/afi36-2107.pdf). I don't know of anyone that has gone to PIT recently that can speak to this truth, but I think it would make that option more palatable. If anyone can speak to AFPC's interpretation of that reg or has any other insight on that topic, please let me know.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:18 AM
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Ok. Cool. Thats good then. Apologies for the incorrect info. The last version I read was the July 2018 36-2107 when they snuck in ADSCs for everything including an in-house requal. Guess they were forced to change it for the better when guys dropped papers. Ha! Good luck.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Fly Casual View Post
& ExAF: As of 22 Oct 2018, they changed the ADSC reg to read no ADSC for any Advanced Flying Training Quals and it specifically includes the same for PIT. See Table 2.1, Rule 14 of AFI 36-2107 (https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/p...afi36-2107.pdf). I don't know of anyone that has gone to PIT recently that can speak to this truth, but I think it would make that option more palatable. If anyone can speak to AFPC's interpretation of that reg or has any other insight on that topic, please let me know.
Ha Ha...The last time I checked an AFI was almost exactily 20 years ago. Don't think I'll be checking any of them anytime soon...but thanks for the reference! Good luck in your decision.
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