RNAV-M in SAN

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DHC8DRV , 06-30-2021 04:27 PM
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Was holding short of RWY 27 today and heard a Horizon 175 check on with tower on the RNAV-M 27. Both of us had never heard of a “M” approach and it caught us off guard. Is this a special issue, Horizon only, approach or did we hear wrong? Could anyone shed light on what’s required to shoot it and maybe even the minimums for SAN?
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Proplikepay , 06-30-2021 05:21 PM
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We shot it today. It’s a proprietary approach from Alaska that Horizon can utilize. Mins are a bit lower than the Zulu, and makes the difference a lot of days in SAN. We have quite a few of these approaches in our system, and recently the 175 has been cleared to fly some of them.
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DHC8DRV , 06-30-2021 05:40 PM
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Is there any special equipment (WAAS or GBAS) needed or is it just a special approach that AS/QX developed and had FAA approval for?
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Proplikepay , 06-30-2021 06:00 PM
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AS pioneered RNP approaches to better serve in the state of Alaska, and from my understanding was grandfathered the ability to create their own approaches. I don’t believe equipment wise there’s any difference, only demonstrated ability and FAA approval to fly them. Horizon has a few that only we can fly such as Wenatchee and Sun Valley.
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Blip , 06-30-2021 08:33 PM
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It's funny to go into those places with our minimums thinking weather is gonna be really crappy because everyone going missed and then you pop out way above the minimums but below everyone else's and you think that's it?!?
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Proplikepay , 07-02-2021 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blip
It's funny to go into those places with our minimums thinking weather is gonna be really crappy because everyone going missed and then you pop out way above the minimums but below everyone else's and you think that's it?!?
Sun Valley lol
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PetRock , 07-05-2021 11:58 PM
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Just remember, its now "how low can you go," but "how low can you go and still get out without hitting the rocks!"

Those EAT RNPs are pretty wild when you think about them from a TERPS terrain angle..
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Excargodog , 07-06-2021 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proplikepay
AS pioneered RNP approaches to better serve in the state of Alaska, and from my understanding was grandfathered the ability to create their own approaches. I don’t believe equipment wise there’s any difference, only demonstrated ability and FAA approval to fly them. Horizon has a few that only we can fly such as Wenatchee and Sun Valley.
No, QX CAN’T “create their own approaches” but there are procedures for any air carriers and others to have the FAA initiate and validate special IFR procedures, either at government expense if they are going to be more broadly used, or at the cost of the carrier if they are deemed to be more a proprietary thing.

https://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v...010_chg_0a.htm

An excerpt:

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4-423 INITIATING A REQUEST FOR SPECIAL INSTRUMENT PROCEDURES. The process used to develop and obtain FAA approval for special instrument procedures is addressed in FAA Order 8260.19, Flight Procedures and Airspace, current edition. An air carrier/operator desiring a special operation should review the FAA Web site, https://nfdc.faa.gov/portal/doc/Special_Procedures.pdf, to determine if there are already special procedures serving the airport in question. When an operator requests a special instrument procedure, the FAA will proceed with one of the following:

A. If a Procedure Already Exists.

1) In response to a proponent request, the RFSD AWOPM will provide a copy of the procedure to the appropriate POI for processing, if the AWOPM determines that the special procedure can be released and authorized for the use by additional carriers. However, some special instrument procedures may be suitable for very limited distribution to one or two carriers based on specific reasons. For example, a particular carrier may provide required maintenance of the procedure; the procedure was designed for a specific type of aircraft/avionics performance capability only available to one operator; or a particular operator provides some proprietary form of support required in the approval of the procedure, etc.
2) The POI must verify that the procedure has been processed according to the approval process found in paragraph 4-424 of this section.

B. If a Procedure Does Not Exist. If a procedure does not exist, the air carrier/operator may:

1) Via the FAA Web site: http://avn.FAA.gov/, complete and submit the Request for IAP form. If it is deemed to be in the public’s interest, the National Flight Procedures Group (NFPG) will develop the approach at a cost to the Government.
2) If the air carrier/operator wants the IAP to be a private venture, then the NFPG will develop and maintain the approach at a cost to the air carrier/operator considering one of the two following factors:
a) Internally, develop and maintain the procedure (at a cost to the air carrier/operator); or
b) Contract with an outside vendor to develop and maintain the approach procedure (at a cost to the air carrier/operator).
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