Originally Posted by Hubcapped

There is a middle ground

Originally Posted by METO Guido

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

First off, I hope you had a nice holiday with friends and family.

Now let’s get into a bit. Couple issues I have with your comments.

It’s not ammonia, but nitrogen pollution. There is a preponderance of information regarding nitrogen pollution that can be pulled from government sources. Ironically one of the most susceptible environments to nitrogen pollution is….drum roll….low land bogs. Couple prime examples here in the U.S if you want to do some research. One I found was in jersey and was pretty interesting.

You accused me of a straw man arguement despite me literally quoting what winged said, and you have yet to apologize or at least admit you were wrong. I am always willing to admit fault if it’s clearly laid out, I would hope you can do the same. I hold myself to a high standard when I think I’m wrong, and if you want me to take you seriously, I expect the same.

Back to strawmen, we have gone over dead kids in Africa for food…..it is not that simple and you asking me “how many dead kids…” is just plain sensationalism. Stay within a reasonable context and j will continue to discord. Start throwing embellished propaganda at me and I’m just going to walk(which of course may be just fine with you, but I’m here to just pass the time in between flights lol). Regardless the previous gentleman laid out how it’s not that simple. Either refute his well thought out rebuttal with your own, or don’t spread disinformation.

Let’s say however that you are right…starving children in 3rd world countries. Should the Dutch be required now to disregard science and the building pollution problem they face for any other country? You talk about socialism and rights and blah blah, but now you are cherry picking their right to manage their own land.

At the very least it does not seem unreasonable in my mind to understand that pass practices regarding industrial manufacturing of any product, may not be prudent going forward as the world gets smaller, ecosystems get more and more intertwined, and most importantly, science is just now using historical data to really focused on the impact of mass industrialization in the 20th century.

There is a middle ground

Lot more to discuss. But this was long enough. Cheers

Originally Posted by Excargodog

It is truly difficult to discern if your understanding of these things is so superficial to non-existent or if you are simply a troll. Or perhaps you are so enthralled with whatever statements those you consider to be authority figures put out that you simply don’t care to have information that might refute them. Have you had any chemistry or biology courses at all? Do you understand what Nitrogen is? That it constitutes 79% of the atmosphere?

that it is sort of the eventual common denominator for the various Nitrogen containing proteins, nitrogen containing salts, and urea that gets into groundwater?






Historically, determination of the total Nitrogen in groundwater was done by something called the Kjeldahl technique which basically converted all the organic matter and ammonium salts to - you guessed it - Ammonia, for determination of total Nitrogen.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/fi...draft_2001.pdf

There are better methods now, but that is how total Nitrogen and ammonia levels originally were determined. And for mammals, the total nitrate level is important, but what is driving this particular issue is the Ammonia level because we must save those precious fresh water mussels.

As for the starving kids in Africa being a straw man, would that were true. You are perhaps aware that there is a war going on in The Ukraine, the historical “breadbasket of Europe” while between sanctions and boycotts the cheap Russian natural gas that is converted into fertilizer, https://www.fertilizerseurope.com/fe...zers-are-made/

these are desperate times for those in Africa who live on the edge of hunger even in good times, nothing strawman about it. Are you that ignorant or do you just not care?

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

Cargo, you are cherry picking. Excess nitrogen is an issue. Your desire for it not to be so is irrelevant. You are starting to be uncivil fyi. Control your emotions please

here is one government source that explains it. if the government is biased to you, then we are done as you are unable to discourse without an emotional attachment to your position

https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/...ogen-and-water

how can everyone else be wrong or corrupt except the people that agree with you? think about it

to be crystal clear, your position is its not a big deal and this is socialist government overreach. my position is that im not a scientist and i stay in my lane and trust the process as im sure the dutch scientist arent interested in "killing african kids" nor destroying the 7 companies that control the dutch livestock market.

Originally Posted by Excargodog

To be crystal clear, you have failed on multiple occasions to answer my question about your simple competency in basic chemistry or biology or your knowledge of current events affecting millions of people around the world. I have shown from the EUs own documents that the species they are setting their levels to protect are fresh water mussels. Perhaps if I were as ignorant as you of chemistry, the biological sciences, or current events, I would be comfortable delegating life and death decisions to bureaucrats who all too frequently tailor their entire lives to their sub specialty without worrying about the big picture, but fortunately I am not that ignorant.


Do European bureaucrats in Brussels actually look at the big picture? It would be surprising if they did. It’s been less than 65 years since their fathers and grandfathers brutally ruled parts of Africa.

https://youtu.be/-K4M9HroXXo

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa...xt-2022-06-08/

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article...-belgian-congo

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53017188

Sometimes emotional responses - if fact based - are entirely appropriate. But we do have one area of agreement, it is time to end our discourse. Either you are simply trolling me or you are truly that abysmally ignorant of science, current events, and history. If the former all this is a sham, if the latter you will need to find the motivation yourself to correct your inadequacies in understanding of the issue or maintain your faith in the “ex Cathedra” uttering of bureaucrats about topics you will never understand.

Have a good life.

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

There is a middle ground, and frankly it’s kind of ridiculous when the middle ground is now taboo

Originally Posted by Hubcapped

Manure and fertilizer runoff the farm and permeate the water and soil. It creates a ph imbalance.

Lolz, tell me you literally can’t even track the discussion nor do research without telling me