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Runway Incursion/Near Miss JFK 13-JAN-2023

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Runway Incursion/Near Miss JFK 13-JAN-2023

Old 01-19-2023, 10:19 AM
  #21  
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Default Human Error more likely in close call

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/busin...ror/index.html

I thought the intersection of J and 4L didn't have any runway status lights?
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Old 01-19-2023, 11:27 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by AirBear View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/busin...ror/index.html

I thought the intersection of J and 4L didn't have any runway status lights?
I was using the term RWSL which includes both types.

The intersections do have RELs.

What 4L doesn't have is THL to alert departures of incursions downfield.

If the crew blew through lit red RELs that's even less good.


https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/rwsl/
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Old 01-19-2023, 04:25 PM
  #23  
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Another article saying all lights were working properly.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/busin...ror/index.html

I read a story on my phone earlier that I can't find now, but it said the F/O was on her first flight in the 777 after training and flying many hours in the 737. And she was having to deal with that new procedure AA started where she has to make the "ready for takeoff" PA.
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Old 01-19-2023, 04:37 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
If flights ops told them they could go, they're good.

Not unreasonable, since they're doing an asap anyway they should be honest about what happened. Almost certainly an honest goof, safe to assume they weren't watching movies or sleeping while taxiing at kennedy.
It was mostly to point out no-one will ever find out if the relief pilot was hitting on the FAs and they were talking about golf the whole time.
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Old 01-19-2023, 04:42 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by AirBear View Post
Another article saying all lights were working properly.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/busin...ror/index.html

I read a story on my phone earlier that I can't find now, but it said the F/O was on her first flight in the 777 after training and flying many hours in the 737. And she was having to deal with that new procedure AA started where she has to make the "ready for takeoff" PA.
"Deal with that new procedure", oh come on. Making that PA takes 3 seconds, and it's done like that almost everywhere else anyway. If you can't handle that without causing a runway incursion, get off the damn flight deck.

That whole manual thing is such a load of BS. Those manual changes have nothing to do with this. The only reason AA pilots are complaining about it is because they didn't get paid to do the training. Those changes are done by manual revisions almost everywhere else all the time. It isn't even that big of a change.
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Old 01-20-2023, 06:07 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
"Deal with that new procedure", oh come on. Making that PA takes 3 seconds, and it's done like that almost everywhere else anyway. If you can't handle that without causing a runway incursion, get off the damn flight deck.

That whole manual thing is such a load of BS. Those manual changes have nothing to do with this. The only reason AA pilots are complaining about it is because they didn't get paid to do the training. Those changes are done by manual revisions almost everywhere else all the time. It isn't even that big of a change.
Highly unlikely that her making a PA would've caused anything of this magnitude. The captain was still the guy with his hands on the tiller, and there was a working FB.

As for the new procedures, the fact that a procedure or call-out or flow gets changed here and there is nothing new. The gripe is with the sheer magnitude of the changes dumped on every fleet with a light switch implementation change from the 2nd to the 3d - old procedures today, new procedures tomorrow. Don't screw them up. Almost every change changed long established customs and habit patterns. Sure, make the changes - happens all the time as you say, Dera - but implement them in over a phased-in period, not all at once. THAT was the issue with most of us. And, yes, I asked my buddies at DL, UA, AS, and WN if they'd ever been handed so many operational changes all in one fell swoop like this, and their answers were all no.
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Old 01-20-2023, 02:34 PM
  #27  
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Sterile cockpit does not mean you can’t talk.
121.542

engaging in non-essential conversations within the cockpit
If I say ‘nice sunrise but now I’ve got the sun in my eyes can you adjust my sun shade’ is not a breach of sterile cockpit rules.
Neither is giving yourself progressive taxi and requesting confirmation from other crew members in the cockpit including jump seaters.
That is all pertinent to the specific phase.
So they could have been talking since pushback and as long as it was all relevant it’s not a breach of the rule.
Sterile does not equal silent.
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Old 01-21-2023, 01:17 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
It was mostly to point out no-one will ever find out if the relief pilot was hitting on the FAs and they were talking about golf the whole time.
More likely was the IRO was marking his preferences on the crew meal menu, and maybe asking the other two what they wanted.
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Old 01-21-2023, 01:43 PM
  #29  
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Was the FO new on type and on OE?
LCA on the tiller?
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Old 01-21-2023, 01:49 PM
  #30  
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It's the company's call in a case like this whether they want to pull the CVR. In this case sounds like they preferred a departure rather than return to gate, lengthy delay, and possible crew timeout.
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