Why won't the IPA union RAISE the retirement bar instead of trying to match our old contract? Your negotiators need to get some testicular fortitude, sorry to say.

You call an 8% raise "testicular fortitude"? Better look in the mirror. We should have opened with a minimum of 25%!!!!! And settled for 20%!!!!! DOS. Falcon 20 Drivers want to kiss Fred's butt forever. Thank goodness they are slowly retiring.

I'm talking about the IPA negotiators, Nash. I was led to believe through this forum and flightinfo.com that large gains were being sought by the IPA.... so my obvious disappointment that in 2005 the pilots of UPS are shooting for our current retirement package.

Nash, you keep pointing to our 8% pay rate opener in your posts...while it may be true, there are many other facets to FedEx ALPA's openers...changes to trip and duty rigs, an increase to our Minimum Pay per Duty Period, enhancements to our A fund calculation, increases to our B fund, improvements for duty times during critical/international duty periods, securing our current and retiree healthcare, reinforcing our scope clause, etc., etc. All of these will directly or indirectly impact our bottom line potential...whether it be through actual cash, time off, or better health, family life or job security.

Of course we want the highest of everything...but your negotiating committee as well as ours realize that a contract is a complete package...it can't all be about base pay rates. Do you honestly believe IPA's or FDX ALPA's negotiating committees are deliberately "shooting low" to help our companies and sabotage pilots' earnings potential? They are working hard to secure contracts for both our groups, shooting for realistic and equitable improvements to our bottom line and quality of life.

And of course, you can always vote "NO" when your final proposal comes down to a membership vote...or become an IPA leader to try and better influence the next round of contract negotiations.

Keep the Faith,
(one of the many) MD11driver(s)

Oh, and by the way, I am not an old Falcon driver...nor a union leader or company plant...just a line dog with realistic expectations, who supports our union efforts...

Obviously we are going to try to raise the bar, but which bar do you really want to raise?

Our B Plan is already better than yours, it's our A plan that bites. At it's current 1% per YOS minus a social security offset, many of our pilots who worked for years as a contractor didn't start this accrual until UPS formed in 1988. So the most senior (with a few exceptions) guy (17 years of service right now) would currently get 17% of base pay MINUS any social security offset. We now have over 160 former Captains sitting sideways waiting for a "retroactive" A Plan increase, or some sort of buyout. We're talking huge amounts of CASH that must be laid out by UPS at contract ratification. This is a big improvement for us.

Of course we're assuming an A Plan will be around when I retire in 14 years?

Lets wait until we see a TA before we start making too many assumptions about what is being discussed anyway. Cheers.

Why in the world fight for increased pensions. What have we learned about pensions in the last couple of years. Plans where you keep the money make sense to me.

IPA has FedEx ALPA's retirement proposal for their NEW contract. UPS has agreed in principal to match the end dollar amount of FedEx's NEW contract proposal. UPS will also be rolling the IPA's pension into the UPS manager's pension plan. That will make it as secure as you can possibly get in any pension short of a government one.

There is no such thing as a secure pension. You don't want to be 59, have UPS go bankrupt and your left with pennies on the dollar. Think UPS can't go under in 20 years? My crystal ball doesn't even see to the end of this year. I would seek to increase the B fund and leave the A alone.

We are going to increase the B along with the A plan. Gee, you furloughed pax guys sure are gunshy about pensions. If UPS were ever to be in the financial position as to put it's A plan in jeapordy, then you would have MUCH bigger problems than worrying about wheter or not our next pension check will come. You'd be worrying about finding a cave to crawl into to hide from the nuclear blast and fallout. UPS is NOT an airline. As phucked up as they are, they have been their MOST profitable since 9-11. I'm more that willing to stake PART of my retirement of an A plan from UPS, and I have 20 yrs to go to age 60.

What an arrogant statement. You and I were LUCKY enough to get hired by the right companies and a lot of our friends and compatriots weren't. I for one feel very fortunate. Gunshy? I don't blame them a bit. But then again, it's only their future. Like I said, arrogant.