BTW, off topic, number of hours of IOE is kind of meaningless. A better metric would be number of segments. When I was on IOE, we did a ferry flight from COS-ORD which blocked nearly 5 hours, much of it on the ground in ORD getting to the hangars. Wasted time on the ground doesn't help much....

All business leaders are that way Saab..... I dont give a crap what country they are from.

You're right about that. I saw it back in Switzerland too. Somehow it seems to be worse here though. Probably isn't though.

At least some of the worst of the crooks (Enron, Worldcom, etc) have been packed off to die in jail.

It just seems worse here b/ce the system doesn't protect them when they are exposed. We don't have a formal aristocracy to protect the "golden ones." If they tick off the shareholders, they tend to burn at the stake here.

The check airman is unlikely to sign you off halfway through a trip...you then become a qualified FO, and he becomes a line pilot...and loses his check airman pay for the rest of the trip.

I'm guessing, but most people probably know better than to apply to mesa now. So they may be getting only those folks who have been unable to get hired (or complete training) elsewhere. Also mesa is probably more desperate than TSA to keep warm bodies on property.

Thats right. Bashing management is fine, bashing non-union pilots is fine, bashing anyone that does not share your viewpoint of the moment is fine...but don't cross the line by talking about the training department...

I didn't mean to say that they actually do suck hence the "possibly" at the beginning of the sentence. But I have heard from various people, some who work there that the turmoil hasn't been completely limited to management.

Also I said "Overall it doesn't really matter how long it takes as long as the product at the end of OE is a safe competent pilot."

Didn't mean to step on any toes so for that I apologize.

I was underwhlemed by the mesa training program as a new hire. Ground school was disorganized and ineffective, nice folks but not too motivated. Sim was good, but the instructor was a great guy. IOE was a non-event...I learned visual approaches, but other than that the checkairmen just read magazines in route. That was a number of years ago...I can't imagine it's gotten any better over there (my old sim instructor got PO'ed at the company and quit).

Thanks! I was in a funky mood yesterday anyhow, ended up that I sent some emails I wish I could unsend- heck, there is a lot of turmoil at Mesa and its enough to be fearing for your job from day to day... this lawsuit has some big implications, and if they declare bankruptcy I don't think we will see a contract for another 5 years. Plus, there will be another mega attrition sparked off- numerous months with 80+ resigning... we will probably lose a contract by the end of Dec. and it will probably be United. BNA, ORD or IAD... furloughs... dang, can I get any more doom and gloom? All I want to do is fly a plane around the lower 48, get paid a decent wage, have some humane work rules and some stability. Is that too much to ask? Obviously so.

Come on over to a stable, respectful company.