Navy Pilots wanted
01-24-2006, 07:23 PM
#1
APC co-founder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Navy Pilots wanted
Looks like the Navy cannot keep pilots or attract enough volunteers. They have decided to pursue warrant officer pilots. A good deal I suppose, except the WO's will never hold a command...which come to think of it may not be a bad deal 
--------------------------------
AUZYUW RUENAAA0005 0191820-UUUU--RHMCSUU.
ZNR UUUUU ZUI RUEWMCS1734 0191824
R 191820Z JAN 06 ZYB MIN ZYW PSN 793597K40
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//
TO NAVADMIN
RHMFIUU/CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//
RHMFIUU/CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//
BT
UNCLAS //N01500//
NAVADMIN 031/06
MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1NT/JAN//
SUBJ/FY-06 ACTIVE DUTY FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER (CWO) PILOT
/PROGRAM APPLICATION//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. THE NAVY IS SEEKING APPLICATIONS FROM
HIGHLY-QUALIFIED AND HARD-CHARGING SAILORS (E-5 THROUGH E-7) FOR A
PILOT PROGRAM TO PLACE CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS (CWO) IN COCKPITS AS
PILOTS AND NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS. AS PART OF CNO'S STRATEGY FOR OUR
PEOPLE, THIS PILOT PROGRAM WILL HARNESS THE STRENGTHS OF OUR SAILORS
TODAY AND SHAPE THE NAVY OF TOMORROW. AS A PILOT PROGRAM, 30
QUALIFIED PERSONNEL WILL BE SELECTED, COMMISSIONED AS CWO2 PRIOR TO
LDO/CWO INDOCTRINATION, AND SUBSEQUENTLY UNDERGO FLIGHT TRAINING.
2. THE NEWLY WINGED AVIATORS WILL RECEIVE FLEET REPLACEMENT
PAGE 02 RUENAAA0005 UNCLAS
SQUADRON (FRS) TRAINING AND THEN REPORT TO THE FLEET. TARGETED
COMMUNITIES ARE VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, AND HSL. THE INTENT IS TO
CREATE FLYING SPECIALISTS UNENCUMBERED BY THE TRADITIONAL CAREER
PATHS OF THE UNRESTRICTED LINE (URL) COMMUNITY. AS SUCH, FLYING
CWO'S WILL ROTATE BETWEEN TRADITIONAL SEA/SHORE ROTATIONS
(OPERATIONAL SQUADRONS TO SHORE PRODUCTION SOURCES, E.G. TRACOM,
FRS, NSAWC, WEAPON SCHOOLS). APPLICATIONS ARE DUE TO COMNAVPERSCOM
(PERS-432M) NO LATER THAN 31MAR06.
3. SPECIFIC PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS:
A. MUST BE COMMISSIONED BY 27TH BIRTHDAY.
B. ENLISTED PERSONNEL FROM SEAL, SWCC, EOD, DIVER, NUCLEAR, AND
MA COMMUNITIES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THIS PROGRAM.
C. MUST POSSESS AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE OR HIGHER.
D. MUST BE PHYSICALLY QUALIFIED FOR AVIATION DUTY IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE NAVY MANUAL OF MEDICINE.
E. MUST MEET AVIATION STANDARD TEST BATTERY (ASTB) MINIMUMS.
F. MUST MEET ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENT FOR A SECRET SECURITY
CLEARANCE.
4. INDIVIDUAL CAREER CONSIDERATIONS:
A. UPON WINGING, SELECTEES WILL INCUR AN 8 YR MINIMUM SERVICE
PAGE 03 RUENAAA0005 UNCLAS
REQUIREMENT (MSR) FOR PILOTS, 6 YR MSR FOR NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS.
B. TOUR LENGTHS: SEA 36 MONTHS, SHORE 33 MONTHS.
C. ELIGIBLE ASSIGNMENTS: VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, HSL AND
ASSOCIATED FRS, TRACOM, NSAWC, AND WEAPON SCHOOLS.
D. SELECTEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DEPARTMENT HEAD (DH) TOURS
AND WILL FILL JUNIOR OFFICER (JO) BILLETS ONLY. THE INTENT IS FOR
FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS NOT TO FILL JO BILLETS THAT ARE
NORMALLY CONSIDERED CAREER MILESTONES FOR URL OFFICERS.
E. ORDERS WILL BE NEGOTIATED WITH THE COGNIZANT PERS-43
ASSIGNMENTS OFFICER.
5. ATTRITION:
A. ATTRITES EITHER IN THE TRAINING COMMAND, FRS OR FLEET THAT
HAVE LESS THAN 3 YEARS OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE WILL REVERT
BACK TO THEIR PREVIOUS RANK AND RATE.
B. THOSE IN EXCESS OF 3 YEARS COMMISSIONED SERVICE WILL BE
DETAILED TO NON-FLYING BILLETS WITHIN THE AVIATION COMMUNITY.
6. REFER TO THE OPNAVINST 1420.1A FOR CWO ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA IN
ADDITION TO REQUIREMENTS CITED IN PARAGRAPH 3. INDIVIDUAL GRADE
AND TIME-IN-SERVICE WAIVERS FOR E-5/E-6 PERSONNEL ARE NOT REQUIRED.
A GROUP GRADE AND TIME-IN-SERVICE WAIVER FOR E-5/E-6 PERSONNEL IN
PAGE 04 RUENAAA0005 UNCLAS
THE PILOT PROGRAM WILL BE SUBMITTED BY PERS-4.
7. APPLICATIONS SHOULD INCLUDE FLIGHT PHYSICAL DOCUMENTATION, ASTB
RESULTS, AND SECURITY CLEARANCE ELIGIBILITY. SAMPLE APPLICATION
WITH ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS IS ALSO AVAILABLE AT
WWW.NPC.NAVY.MIL/OFFICER/LDOCWOCOMMUNITY, CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.
FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE FLYING CWO PROGRAM, CONTACT THE
HEAD AVIATION PLACEMENT OFFICER, CDR STEVEN KNOTT AT (901)
874-4944/DSN 882 OR ASSISTANT LDO/CWO ASSIGNMENTS OFFICER LCDR AL
WOOTEN AT (901) 874-3948/DSN 882. FOR APPLICATION QUESTIONS CONTACT
COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-4801G) CWO2 MCGALLAGHER OR MR. DAWSON AT (901)
874-3172/DSN 882 OR EMAIL AT [email protected].
8. RELEASED BY VADM J. C. HARVEY, JR., N1/NT.//
BT
#0005
--------------------------------
AUZYUW RUENAAA0005 0191820-UUUU--RHMCSUU.
ZNR UUUUU ZUI RUEWMCS1734 0191824
R 191820Z JAN 06 ZYB MIN ZYW PSN 793597K40
FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//
TO NAVADMIN
RHMFIUU/CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//
RHMFIUU/CNO WASHINGTON DC//N1NT//
BT
UNCLAS //N01500//
NAVADMIN 031/06
MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/N1NT/JAN//
SUBJ/FY-06 ACTIVE DUTY FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER (CWO) PILOT
/PROGRAM APPLICATION//
GENTEXT/REMARKS/1. THE NAVY IS SEEKING APPLICATIONS FROM
HIGHLY-QUALIFIED AND HARD-CHARGING SAILORS (E-5 THROUGH E-7) FOR A
PILOT PROGRAM TO PLACE CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS (CWO) IN COCKPITS AS
PILOTS AND NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS. AS PART OF CNO'S STRATEGY FOR OUR
PEOPLE, THIS PILOT PROGRAM WILL HARNESS THE STRENGTHS OF OUR SAILORS
TODAY AND SHAPE THE NAVY OF TOMORROW. AS A PILOT PROGRAM, 30
QUALIFIED PERSONNEL WILL BE SELECTED, COMMISSIONED AS CWO2 PRIOR TO
LDO/CWO INDOCTRINATION, AND SUBSEQUENTLY UNDERGO FLIGHT TRAINING.
2. THE NEWLY WINGED AVIATORS WILL RECEIVE FLEET REPLACEMENT
PAGE 02 RUENAAA0005 UNCLAS
SQUADRON (FRS) TRAINING AND THEN REPORT TO THE FLEET. TARGETED
COMMUNITIES ARE VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, AND HSL. THE INTENT IS TO
CREATE FLYING SPECIALISTS UNENCUMBERED BY THE TRADITIONAL CAREER
PATHS OF THE UNRESTRICTED LINE (URL) COMMUNITY. AS SUCH, FLYING
CWO'S WILL ROTATE BETWEEN TRADITIONAL SEA/SHORE ROTATIONS
(OPERATIONAL SQUADRONS TO SHORE PRODUCTION SOURCES, E.G. TRACOM,
FRS, NSAWC, WEAPON SCHOOLS). APPLICATIONS ARE DUE TO COMNAVPERSCOM
(PERS-432M) NO LATER THAN 31MAR06.
3. SPECIFIC PROGRAM REQUIREMENTS:
A. MUST BE COMMISSIONED BY 27TH BIRTHDAY.
B. ENLISTED PERSONNEL FROM SEAL, SWCC, EOD, DIVER, NUCLEAR, AND
MA COMMUNITIES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THIS PROGRAM.
C. MUST POSSESS AN ASSOCIATES DEGREE OR HIGHER.
D. MUST BE PHYSICALLY QUALIFIED FOR AVIATION DUTY IN ACCORDANCE
WITH THE NAVY MANUAL OF MEDICINE.
E. MUST MEET AVIATION STANDARD TEST BATTERY (ASTB) MINIMUMS.
F. MUST MEET ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENT FOR A SECRET SECURITY
CLEARANCE.
4. INDIVIDUAL CAREER CONSIDERATIONS:
A. UPON WINGING, SELECTEES WILL INCUR AN 8 YR MINIMUM SERVICE
PAGE 03 RUENAAA0005 UNCLAS
REQUIREMENT (MSR) FOR PILOTS, 6 YR MSR FOR NAVAL FLIGHT OFFICERS.
B. TOUR LENGTHS: SEA 36 MONTHS, SHORE 33 MONTHS.
C. ELIGIBLE ASSIGNMENTS: VP, VQ (P), VQ (T), HSC, HSL AND
ASSOCIATED FRS, TRACOM, NSAWC, AND WEAPON SCHOOLS.
D. SELECTEES ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DEPARTMENT HEAD (DH) TOURS
AND WILL FILL JUNIOR OFFICER (JO) BILLETS ONLY. THE INTENT IS FOR
FLYING CHIEF WARRANT OFFICERS NOT TO FILL JO BILLETS THAT ARE
NORMALLY CONSIDERED CAREER MILESTONES FOR URL OFFICERS.
E. ORDERS WILL BE NEGOTIATED WITH THE COGNIZANT PERS-43
ASSIGNMENTS OFFICER.
5. ATTRITION:
A. ATTRITES EITHER IN THE TRAINING COMMAND, FRS OR FLEET THAT
HAVE LESS THAN 3 YEARS OF COMMISSIONED SERVICE WILL REVERT
BACK TO THEIR PREVIOUS RANK AND RATE.
B. THOSE IN EXCESS OF 3 YEARS COMMISSIONED SERVICE WILL BE
DETAILED TO NON-FLYING BILLETS WITHIN THE AVIATION COMMUNITY.
6. REFER TO THE OPNAVINST 1420.1A FOR CWO ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA IN
ADDITION TO REQUIREMENTS CITED IN PARAGRAPH 3. INDIVIDUAL GRADE
AND TIME-IN-SERVICE WAIVERS FOR E-5/E-6 PERSONNEL ARE NOT REQUIRED.
A GROUP GRADE AND TIME-IN-SERVICE WAIVER FOR E-5/E-6 PERSONNEL IN
PAGE 04 RUENAAA0005 UNCLAS
THE PILOT PROGRAM WILL BE SUBMITTED BY PERS-4.
7. APPLICATIONS SHOULD INCLUDE FLIGHT PHYSICAL DOCUMENTATION, ASTB
RESULTS, AND SECURITY CLEARANCE ELIGIBILITY. SAMPLE APPLICATION
WITH ANSWERS TO FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS IS ALSO AVAILABLE AT
WWW.NPC.NAVY.MIL/OFFICER/LDOCWOCOMMUNITY, CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.
FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THE FLYING CWO PROGRAM, CONTACT THE
HEAD AVIATION PLACEMENT OFFICER, CDR STEVEN KNOTT AT (901)
874-4944/DSN 882 OR ASSISTANT LDO/CWO ASSIGNMENTS OFFICER LCDR AL
WOOTEN AT (901) 874-3948/DSN 882. FOR APPLICATION QUESTIONS CONTACT
COMNAVPERSCOM (PERS-4801G) CWO2 MCGALLAGHER OR MR. DAWSON AT (901)
874-3172/DSN 882 OR EMAIL AT [email protected].
8. RELEASED BY VADM J. C. HARVEY, JR., N1/NT.//
BT
#0005
01-31-2006, 12:07 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
navy pilots
Well isn't that strange...
Year group 2004 reported to Pensacola with 160 pilot candidates (out of the academy) and they were told only 80 of them were needed...many were cut loose from training and some with only a year penance tour after a four year academy education...
Now they need pilots?????...I'm not sure if the left hand knows what the right hand is doing...Luckily my son got to stay and is due to be winged in Apr/May...not sure why they need warrants when they let a boatload of ensigns out the navy for free...one guy even had the navy pay for his masters in aerospace engineering and he will be working for Lockheed-Martin now...go figure...
Pilot7576
Year group 2004 reported to Pensacola with 160 pilot candidates (out of the academy) and they were told only 80 of them were needed...many were cut loose from training and some with only a year penance tour after a four year academy education...
Now they need pilots?????...I'm not sure if the left hand knows what the right hand is doing...Luckily my son got to stay and is due to be winged in Apr/May...not sure why they need warrants when they let a boatload of ensigns out the navy for free...one guy even had the navy pay for his masters in aerospace engineering and he will be working for Lockheed-Martin now...go figure...
Pilot7576
01-31-2006, 12:59 PM
#3
APC co-founder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Originally Posted by Pilot7576
...I'm not sure if the left hand knows what the right hand is doing..
Now there is an understatement! I experienced the pre-gulf war RIF and have been amazed at how far behind the power curve (military) manpower planning is ever since.
Congrats to your son for earning his wings!
01-31-2006, 01:34 PM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: HC-130H A/C
Posts: 78
Pilot7576,
Congrats to our son. A long road but an exciting one.
I just left the VP community and alot of the current URL pilots were passed over for good ground tours because the VP fleet is falling apart. The community went from 36 officers (pilots and NFOs) to 30. This was a requirement for the sqaudrons to do because the airplanes are going away. And when I mean going away, they are not flight worthy. Many are going to the bone yard at Davis Monthans. Check it out at: http://www.amarcexperience.com/AMARCArticleP3Orion.asp
The VP community is flying them so little right now to just get enough years out of the old girls until the new MMA program comes along. Check it out: http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...mma/index.html
The Military has never been known to be ahead of the power curve any way. Maybe this is a program to fill the seats of the new MMA (737-800ER) plane. Although they took the Flight Engineer away from us now they want to take the pilot seats away from us too. I would say that the next 8 years the VP VQ community is not the plane guys will be very happy in.
Congrats to our son. A long road but an exciting one.
I just left the VP community and alot of the current URL pilots were passed over for good ground tours because the VP fleet is falling apart. The community went from 36 officers (pilots and NFOs) to 30. This was a requirement for the sqaudrons to do because the airplanes are going away. And when I mean going away, they are not flight worthy. Many are going to the bone yard at Davis Monthans. Check it out at: http://www.amarcexperience.com/AMARCArticleP3Orion.asp
The VP community is flying them so little right now to just get enough years out of the old girls until the new MMA program comes along. Check it out: http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...mma/index.html
The Military has never been known to be ahead of the power curve any way. Maybe this is a program to fill the seats of the new MMA (737-800ER) plane. Although they took the Flight Engineer away from us now they want to take the pilot seats away from us too. I would say that the next 8 years the VP VQ community is not the plane guys will be very happy in.
01-31-2006, 02:26 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
I'm reminded of the early 90's. The Navy cut WAY back, then found itself short pilots. The Army found itself overstaffed pilots- guys out of flight school were holding such great jobs as Vet Clinic XO.
So the Army and Navy worked out a deal. Army LTs were given the option of transfering to the Navy, but... horrors... they would have to go back through flight school.
So the Army and Navy worked out a deal. Army LTs were given the option of transfering to the Navy, but... horrors... they would have to go back through flight school.
02-01-2006, 07:24 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 679
P3s fading away
P3Pilot...
I was dh in barbers (MO) when downsizing was happening...got passed for 05 and shortly thereafter saw the sqns go from 24 to what 13? When my son finished primary, there was a p3 draft..no one wanted them. He had flown with so many instructors in corpus that told him they flew maybe ten hours a month not including preflighting broke birds that were wasting their time...
After getting passed again (go figure) Clinton decided we should all retire to cut the federal workforce. I have talked to one of my old jo's here now who said he drills in jax and they have 4 planes to share among the home sqns and the flight time at home is very limited...
My son is flying helos and having a blast...he asks when he should get out...I tell him when he's not having fun anymore to pick up and move on...
Luckily for me, I stepped in ****** and came out smelling pretty nice...
Pilot7576
I was dh in barbers (MO) when downsizing was happening...got passed for 05 and shortly thereafter saw the sqns go from 24 to what 13? When my son finished primary, there was a p3 draft..no one wanted them. He had flown with so many instructors in corpus that told him they flew maybe ten hours a month not including preflighting broke birds that were wasting their time...
After getting passed again (go figure) Clinton decided we should all retire to cut the federal workforce. I have talked to one of my old jo's here now who said he drills in jax and they have 4 planes to share among the home sqns and the flight time at home is very limited...
My son is flying helos and having a blast...he asks when he should get out...I tell him when he's not having fun anymore to pick up and move on...
Luckily for me, I stepped in ****** and came out smelling pretty nice...
Pilot7576
02-01-2006, 03:34 PM
#8
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: HC-130H A/C
Posts: 78
Pilot7576,
I was in Brunswick for my JO tour and am currently instructing with the canadians on their P-3(CP140). It's hard to see the guys here in canada staying in for 20 years as a LT and the US NAVY say "to bad it's your turn to go". A lot of wasted talent. My sqaudron started to see alot of the retreads from other communities and we seem to eat our young by giving them the good jobs just because they are now up for promotion. Thats when I said no thanks to the VP community. Down to 30 pilots and NFOS with little to no flying. Some of my friends say that on a deployment that I got 400 hours on 2 years early, they are luck to make the minimums to stay flying. They are falling apart and will continue to until the MMA comes. Brunswick is now closing in 2008 and moving to Jacksonville and 3 of the 6 reserve squadrons are decommisioning because all of their planes are now in with the regular squadrons. Well I'll get off my soap box. Safe flying.
P3pilot
I was in Brunswick for my JO tour and am currently instructing with the canadians on their P-3(CP140). It's hard to see the guys here in canada staying in for 20 years as a LT and the US NAVY say "to bad it's your turn to go". A lot of wasted talent. My sqaudron started to see alot of the retreads from other communities and we seem to eat our young by giving them the good jobs just because they are now up for promotion. Thats when I said no thanks to the VP community. Down to 30 pilots and NFOS with little to no flying. Some of my friends say that on a deployment that I got 400 hours on 2 years early, they are luck to make the minimums to stay flying. They are falling apart and will continue to until the MMA comes. Brunswick is now closing in 2008 and moving to Jacksonville and 3 of the 6 reserve squadrons are decommisioning because all of their planes are now in with the regular squadrons. Well I'll get off my soap box. Safe flying.
P3pilot
02-08-2006, 04:19 AM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Not a Retention Issue
You guys are off base on this one. The Navy doesn't have a pilot retention problem but is trying to be innovative here. The CWO program is an experiment surrounding career progression. Rather than "up-or-out," the Bureau of Personnel is attempting to make a place for career aviators - officers that will be allowed to remain in the cockpit instead of being rotated to non-flying billets. We are starting to realize that not all can be the CNO and we are wasting our manpower by forcing officers out even if they are top quality and enjoy their jobs.
02-08-2006, 06:08 AM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: HC-130H A/C
Posts: 78
If the bureau wanted to be innovative they would ask qualified pilots if they want to be career aviators, not some NCO that needs to go through the whole prossess with no garrentee that they will make it. I know there is alot of pilots that would jump at an opportunity to fly for 20 years. The "BUREAU" has come up if this program so that if it fails they can send the "NEW PILOTS" back to the NCO ranks with out making a big impack on the pilot new numbers, thats all. I am currently in an organization that if you want to be a career pilot, you stay at LT and bounce from opporational tour to training tour. It is a great way to keep qualified pilots in the seats.
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