I spent a bunch of years at a wholly-owned regional flying 70 seaters (we're talking old generation). One problem I saw was pilot group to pilot group mistrust that played right into management's hands. There were opportunities for the pilots to work together but they never came to fruition--both sides too protective of turf. End result was that major pilots were convinced the regional pilots were after their jobs and regionals thought the majors were limiting their opportunities. IMHO, both were correct. As someone said, I'm just a line puke but I've never understood why the ALPA/APA/Teamster folks can't get creative and figure out some way to get the major/regional pilot groups literally on the same page. At my aforementioned regional, there was an early attempt to organize and there was talk of a joint MEC. The effort narrowly failed because the major group would give no assurances about any issue and they clearly called all the shots. So the two groups soldier on divided...we missed an opportunity to consolidate while the industry was consolidating and now it's just divide and divide. Yeah, I know there are/were a ton of logistical problems with flow-through, etc. And perhaps no amount of solidarity could stem the tide when the ONLY corporate value is cost management. I'm probably too much of an idealist. As someone once said, "pilot's really do eat their own young."

Nice post Old Timer.

Everyone should take note of the threats on this thread. This is SOP for unions. Intimidation. Never mind about the fundamental right of a person to choose where he would work, or when, or for how much.

This type of behavior, threats and intimidation is despicable. It is this dishonest and shameful behavior that permeates unions that has convinced me to never join a union. Unions despise individuality, free will and independence. You must follow the union or you will be branded a scab, you will be harrassed, intimidated, and threatened. You think working for a non-union company puts your future at risk? Try flying a PC with a check airman/union boss that knows you voted against a MEC recommended measure. You won't be there long unless you follow the union's every dictate.

Consider if this behavior were directed toward a person who disagreed with the group about religion, politics, or race. It would be unacceptable. But among unions, anyone who disagrees with their socio-economic theory must be thrown down.

I had to laugh at this qualification for a FA:

"Must have flown at least once as a passenger"


Now thats really funny

how many regional, major whatever consider Gojets a scab airline???????????????
I'm a cfi not sure about applying to gojets because i don't want the entire industry to trash me. any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. thanks

I was in a similar situation at the company I worked ramp for a while back. It was Boston Maine Airways. They wanted to get me into the FE seat of their 727's, then they wanted to try to get me in their J31's. In the end they layed off their ALPA union pilots and took their J31 CA's and FO's and put them directly into the left and right seat of the 727. It was kind of sketchy. So I say when in doubt don't do it. I couldn't have afforded to be blacklisted. It wasn't worth it.

I think that if you want to call someone a scab, you should have to earn it. People are throwing that word around all too often. I'm not arguing about Gojets being right or wrong. I'm simply stating that if TSA pilots want to call Gojets pilots scabs then TSA pilots should strike.

alter ego airlines are looked upon poorly. gojets was started to undercut their employees just like Freedom Air. how would you like it if someone comes into your flight school/fbo and says that he will take all of poor pilots students at 60% of what you charge. would you be a little bitter/angry.

captain pay was/is to be $53 an hour for a 70 seater. that's crap.

they aren't scabs but alot of people treat them the same way. I know people who carry around a list of freedom and gojet pilots and don't let them jumpseat.

gojet pilots aren't allowed to jumpseat on expressjet because of what's going on.

my advice it to not even apply.

eric

First, let me say simply that the above poster is so far out in left field (or should I say right?), so far from the truth and reality, that no amount of reasoning or presentation of facts could possibly return him or her to a more moderate and accurate viewpoint regarding avaition unions. Too bad.

GoJets wouldn't be possible if the TSA union had better scope provisions. It's too bad that they don't and I hope that they can find a way to survive and remedy the situation.
While it's true that the GoJets pilots are not technically scabs, I think it is also true that they are selfish and despicable and deserve all the derision and ostracism that knowleadgeable and conscientious pilots can provide.
It is easy for us to forget, in these times of generally high levels of safety and good wages, the way that this industry began. Airlines are just companies, like other companies, whose one and only raison d'être is to make money. They have no regard for fairness to their employees nor safety for the public (except and until the point where profitability might be affected). ALPA's long, hard struggle to improve airline safety and wages is something every traveler and pilot should be grateful for. Now that so many pilots have achieved reasonable, or, in some cases outstanding, wages we forget how bad it could be and is, in fact, becoming.
The TSA pilots are simply trying to achieve fair wages and working conditions. Their company is using an unfortunate flaw in their contract to eliminate and replace them with GoJets. Anyone who works for GoJets is complicit and is enabling the replacement of the TSA pilots. GoJets pilots are, in effect, stealing the food from the mouths of the TSA pilots' families. In the long run they will reap what they sow.
I turned down employment with GoJets when I was furloughed from Independence Air (I was interested until I learned what they were doing) because I couldn't live with myself if I accepted employment with them knowing what I was doing to fellow pilots.
Unfortunately, in the big scheme of things, this will only turn out to be a tempest in a teapot. It's too bad that airline pilots aren't more unified. But those of us that know what GoJets is will never allow GoJets pilots into our jumpseats and we will view GoJets pilots with the contempt that they so richly deserve.

I believe this is also an over-generalization no more valid than sarcasticspasti's original post. If one wants to maintain credability, avoid such responses as it casts a shadow on the entire text.

I think he is right on about this. The bottom line is cost especially when your flying can be taken away because someone will do it cheaper. Like at the regionals. I've seen it at my airline.