ERJ-135 single engine performance
04-12-2009, 07:16 PM
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ERJ-135 single engine performance
I am interested to figure out if the ERJ-135 can perform ETOPS ?
I suspect not as it lacks an APU and my understanding is that ETOPS requires continuous APU operation...
So assuming that the answer is no, could anybody tell me please how the ERJ-135 complies with the 90 minute rule ?
From close to it's service ceiling what sort of single engine radius has the ERJ-135 got within 90 minutes of flight time ?
I suspect not as it lacks an APU and my understanding is that ETOPS requires continuous APU operation...
So assuming that the answer is no, could anybody tell me please how the ERJ-135 complies with the 90 minute rule ?
From close to it's service ceiling what sort of single engine radius has the ERJ-135 got within 90 minutes of flight time ?
04-12-2009, 07:34 PM
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Oh cheers for that. I read something online less than an hour ago which said otherwise. Thanks for the correction. We don't have any in my neck of the world so i have never seen one in the flesh.
Last edited by Tazjet; 04-12-2009 at 07:49 PM.
04-12-2009, 10:04 PM
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The ERJ is not certified for ETOPS. Not sure what you're getting at with the 90 minute rule but as a guideline we use 270NM to meet the 1 hour in still air requirement for a takeoff alternate. Service ceiling doesn't really play in until you start talking about driftdown performance which applies to engine failures in areas of high terrain.
04-12-2009, 11:20 PM
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What I mean by ETOPS is long overwater flights. Thanks for confirming that it is not ETOPS certified. For ETOPS you would need extra avionics cooling, fire extinguisher capability for an entire single engine divert, etc.
What I mean by the 90 minute rule is that before ETOPS became all the craze the rule was no twin engined aircraft may fly more than 90 minutes range on a single engine from a divert airfield.
Yes i was talking about driftdown from midpoint in a 1200nm flight. I think the ER-135 has a single engine ceiling of 23,000ft and a normal service ceiling of 37,000ft. What I am trying to get at is if the ERJ-135 can fly reasonable overwater legs ?
I don't think the one hour still in air figure you mention is quite the same as what I am getting at. I appreciate your effort to enlighten me though. I guess the ERJ is not used much in long overwater legs then ?
I am trying to discover if the ERJ-135 can fly about 1200nm with a 540nm divert from the route's midpoint?
What I mean by the 90 minute rule is that before ETOPS became all the craze the rule was no twin engined aircraft may fly more than 90 minutes range on a single engine from a divert airfield.
Yes i was talking about driftdown from midpoint in a 1200nm flight. I think the ER-135 has a single engine ceiling of 23,000ft and a normal service ceiling of 37,000ft. What I am trying to get at is if the ERJ-135 can fly reasonable overwater legs ?
I don't think the one hour still in air figure you mention is quite the same as what I am getting at. I appreciate your effort to enlighten me though. I guess the ERJ is not used much in long overwater legs then ?
I am trying to discover if the ERJ-135 can fly about 1200nm with a 540nm divert from the route's midpoint?
04-13-2009, 08:42 AM
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The ERJ is not certified for ditching. Not sure how that plays into ETOPS or even what the criteria is to certify an airframe to ditch.
You also have to think about decompression fuel. You have to be able to have a decompression at your worst case scenario (lowest combination of fuel state and distance to a suitable airfield) and be able to fly to an alternate at 10,000 feet. In the military we can waive this if there is enough onboard oxygen to continue flight at altitude, but the dixie cups on the ERJ won't last very long.
You also have to think about decompression fuel. You have to be able to have a decompression at your worst case scenario (lowest combination of fuel state and distance to a suitable airfield) and be able to fly to an alternate at 10,000 feet. In the military we can waive this if there is enough onboard oxygen to continue flight at altitude, but the dixie cups on the ERJ won't last very long.
04-13-2009, 12:59 PM
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Very good point Blastoff however in this specific case I am not referring to a country operating under FAA rules per se. That did get me thinking.
In Australia for example under sub regulation 308 and 252 the ERJ 170/190 is exempted from requirement to carry a life raft in overwater flights 60 minutes or 400nm from land.
Another interesting point arises that in the country which I am thinking of the route described may fall outside the Part 121 definition of extended overwater flight, since it is not an ETOPS flight, but rather is within the 90 minute rule and only "extended" operations are required to be certified for ditching.
The other point is that with a life raft in the cabin (as Qantas do on their B733 ETOPS flights) one loses a row of seats on the ERJ-135LR and thus the aircraft becomes subject to Part 125. There is no ditching requirement for Part 125, nor can Part 125 aircraft be certified for ditching anyway.
In any case given the distances here it is doubtful the aircraft could be operated with more than 30 pax.
In terms of decompression we're also talking about 530nm from any given diversion field. What's the fuel flow increase at 10,000 feet ?
In Australia for example under sub regulation 308 and 252 the ERJ 170/190 is exempted from requirement to carry a life raft in overwater flights 60 minutes or 400nm from land.
Another interesting point arises that in the country which I am thinking of the route described may fall outside the Part 121 definition of extended overwater flight, since it is not an ETOPS flight, but rather is within the 90 minute rule and only "extended" operations are required to be certified for ditching.
The other point is that with a life raft in the cabin (as Qantas do on their B733 ETOPS flights) one loses a row of seats on the ERJ-135LR and thus the aircraft becomes subject to Part 125. There is no ditching requirement for Part 125, nor can Part 125 aircraft be certified for ditching anyway.
In any case given the distances here it is doubtful the aircraft could be operated with more than 30 pax.
In terms of decompression we're also talking about 530nm from any given diversion field. What's the fuel flow increase at 10,000 feet ?
12-17-2021, 08:29 AM
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ERJ-135 single engine performance
Originally Posted by JT8D
The ERJ is not certified for ETOPS. Not sure what you're getting at with the 90 minute rule but as a guideline we use 270NM to meet the 1 hour in still air requirement for a takeoff alternate. Service ceiling doesn't really play in until you start talking about driftdown performance which applies to engine failures in areas of high terrain.
Hello,
I was told by an engineer that he thought that the 135 AE 3700 engine is FADEC and should feed AVM data through the EICAS. Can you kindly confirm this?
Thank you very much,
ShieldAero
12-26-2021, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ShieldAero
ERJ-135 FADEC
Hello,
I was told by an engineer that he thought that the 135 AE 3700 engine is FADEC and should feed AVM data through the EICAS. Can you kindly confirm this?
Thank you very much,
ShieldAero
Hello,
I was told by an engineer that he thought that the 135 AE 3700 engine is FADEC and should feed AVM data through the EICAS. Can you kindly confirm this?
Thank you very much,
ShieldAero
never heard of AVM data
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