Don't forget herbivore and REMF. Equally interchangeable terms. They don't teach those politically correct terms at the academy though, they have to learn those in the RAF.

No, they're shoe clerks... You seem a little sensitive on the topic.

Concur.

I am currently chained to a desk at wing level and see an enormous amount of paper, to include OPRs. Ask me what the majority of officers do in a flying wing--'ride desks' would be the apparent answer judging those OPRs.

Rick--my early 90s USAFA class sent 14 folks into USMC. AF wasn't sending folks to flight school but Marines still were. That was an unusally high number but seems like a few go to the other 3 services each year.

To the original poster--do whatever you think in your heart is correct. Don't judge we AF desk jockeys solely by the one guy here who got offended by the term, we do actually do some cool stuff. I gotta say, if you really think you want to be a Marine, you're probably not going to be happy in the AF. And if your hearts desire is to fly helo CAS, well that just ain't gunna happen in the AF.

That out of the way, AF rotary does some just simply awesome stuff. Check it out before you write it off. I'm about a decade removed from teaching white jets, but I got to question you about the odds of getting a helo. 1-2 slots a class was the traditional norm, and while we generally didn't send those people kicking and screaming, safe to say most of them weren't getting their first choice. There was the rare class that had more folks wanting rotary than were coming down, and we (ok the DO) were able to horse trade with AFPC for an extra slot or two. I'm sure it happens, but I never saw or heard firsthand of someone wanting a helo and not getting it. Fact of life, not many people join the AF and fight for a UPT slot because they want fly helo's.

Baseops has a massively long thread showing every UPT track and drop for the past several years, check out numbers on there if you haven't already, it'll give you a better picture of what's actually been coming down lately.

I realize rated manning at the zoo is about nil, but nose around, there's probably a rotary pilot there somewhere you can talk to. Barring that, pick up a phone and call one of the squadrons at Kirtland. I'm convinced AF helo pilots do some of the best flying out there, don't rule it out before truly investigating your options.

The stigma wasnt started here and is not meant to alienate anyone. It is well known where the general thoughts on each branch fall and the rivalries are what keep things competitive and interesting.

Of course we all know not everyone in the Air Force fits the mold of riding the desk but it is well known it is called the "chair force".

Thats why I joined the Marines, no one ever picks on me except for my intelligence, I can handle that. They may call us jar heads and think we are all asvab waivers but they wouldnt want to meet us in a dark alley.

One of the better sayings that fit this scenario "lighten up Francis". No one is trying to hurt anyones feelings or take away from the honorable service our men and women provide across all the branches.

Never said it was....But I, for one, do not desire to see it perpetuated. That's all. And this is coming from someone who never left the cockpit for 24 years.

Sorry if I offended anyone who believes there is a distinction among officers based upon AFSC....(That's Air Force Specialty Code for you DA jarheads )

Sputnik: Guys much higher in the class rankings are coming to helos these days. This is from my observations as well as comments from AF IP's and 'blue suits' at Rucker. I believe the reason is 3 fold... 1. The mission these days is very active and you get to do real world stuff versus mostly training in hopes of doing the real world stuff. 2. Some guys are hot for the V-22 3. Last and most of all these days, you can assure yourself of not getting a UAV out of UPT!

To the original poster. I had a West Point grad in my UPT class. I'm sure it didn't hurt that his Dad was an AF full bird! I've heard you can cross flow as long as there's one from the other branch looking/willing to trade with you...

The Marine Corps has desks too.

In the USAF, the desk is in an air conditioned office.

In the Marine Corps it's in tent that doubles as a sweat-lodge.

Thanks for all the input.

I didn't mean to start a battle about non-flying AF officers. I understand that without support, logistics, and the other portions of the AF mission, there would never be any flights to start with...

I'll be sure to look into my numbers for UPT again, but these were figures sent out from a O6 who was directly tied to UPT.

Thanks again.

Well there's your problem young man...anything you get from an O6 needs to be looked at closely. If you're that hard-up to fly helos, your chances of getting helos in the Marines are very good (about 60% are rotary/tilt rotor). Don't sell the AF helos short, though...those pave-low (sp?) SH-60s are pretty sweet.

In terms of cross commisioning, you're going to need to do your own homework on that. It's a fairly well-kept secret that graduates from all the service academies can select commisions in any of the services. To select Marines, though, there will probably be some sort of summer program (similar to Bulldog for the USNA Marines-to-be) which will require a few fun-filled weeks in Quantico to see if you can spit-shine your rifle and shoot straight with your boots, I may have that backwards...it's been awhile. Bacon

To cross-commission in to the Marines from USAFA I have to participate in the Marine program here, and then apply for OCS, summer prior to senior year. If I make it through that successfully, then I have to apply to get separated from the AF and to cross-commission into the Marines. A few of the upperclassmen did the OCS program successfully but did not get approved to cross, just the needs of the AF at the time.

That's the route I would take.