thanks for the advice

Lot of these threads lately.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/as...des-1-dui.html
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/as...heckrides.html

Just a heads up: If everyone who tells you that 4 failed checkrides is probably too many to be competitive for an airline job in the current market is an a-hole, then you are going to run into a lot of a-holes.

Here is my humble opinion, from someone who has been in charge of hiring pilots both at an air national guard unit and a part 135 outfit: You see a kid who is a good stick who has had a run of bad luck early in his career, and I'm sure he's a great guy. The guy that reads the resumes, however, sees a guy who so far has failed every checkride he's ever taken. That's all I need to see before I move on to the next one, because for both jobs I've hired for in the past, I literally have had a stack of resumes from guys who have never failed a checkride. Harsh but true.

Hopefully your "don't get discouraged" speech was followed by some coaching on how not to dig yourself into a hole on an FAA oral, because that sounds like a trend item to me. That probably should have happened after bust #1, definitely after bust #2. Although you apparently don't want to hear it, the majority of guys I currently work with actually have busted 1, maybe 2 checkrides over the span of a 25 year career with most of them having zero busts. Sorry if that injects unwanted reality into your worldview, but it is a fact.

Most of the insight and examples of real life you are getting ready to receive are going to sound a lot like what I just said above. Your buddy has a lot of work ahead of him before he is going to be able to build a resume that will outweigh this enough for him to get hired at a reputable company. I wish him the best of luck, but it isn't going to be easy.

FANS -

Out of curiosity, would you look over a check airman with one failed ride to pick a line captain with none? Did you take other factors into account? Where do you draw the line?

Would I hire a line captain with no busts over a line check airman with one? Not enough information. There are many other factors to consider, as you said.

Every case is different of course, but your example is lot different from the particular case of the OP's (now deleted) story in which the applicant had failed every checkride he had ever taken up to that point.

I'm not even saying I wouldn't have hired the guy for my part 135 outfit. It would just depend on the guy and the rest of the story.

But I can tell you for my guard unit, he almost certainly wouldn't get hired based on his checkride history, and his chances for a 121 interview would be very doubtful without some seriously mitigating circumstances.

The line is drawn in different places for different interviews.

The Captain of the Q400 that crashed at Buffalo had 5 busted check rides in his career. And the airline he worked for is hiring now according to the regional forum. You may wish to check on the regional forum and see what is a competitive number there....Maybe 4 is still ok and his career is still viable. After the bad press has settled down 4 could be out of line [too many] or even more could still be competitive. You need to check.

What is those failure were 15 yrs ago?
Do they still carry the same weight?

The "harsh reality" pill is a tough one to swallow...especially when spending close to 100k on all the flight time, training and ratings....im sitting on 3 busts and i am not giving up that easily. Best of luck !

Don't give up. I know a few that got hired with 3 busts but they had significant amount of flight time. I would suggest, keep building your hours and get a few more ratings without failing. This may not guarantee a job but atleast, airlines will assume that you are trainable.

Good luck to you.

The problem is most of the application just ask "Have you failed a checkride? If so how many?" Very rarely they will ask for the dates. So even if you failed 15 years ago, won't make much of a differenece.

2 FAA check fails.
1 141 stage fail.
Still hired by a 135 carrier and a 121 carrier.

The key is to establish a clear separation between "training hiccups" and your continued excellence as a professional pilot. Basically never fail ever again. Stressful but doable.

Get in with a 135 carrier and stay there until you've had plenty of 6 month check rides - establish a new track record of check-passes. This is you best hope.

Good luck.