Hi guys and girls,

I was asked to do write a preliminary report on operating cost for a Citation Sovereign and a Challenger 300.

Any of you flying these aircraft that would like to share some numbers?

Thank you all.

Y.

We have operated Sovereigns for a little over 7500 hrs.
I can give you enough numbers to make you dizzy.
How in-depth do you want?
Dave

http://www.jetsearch.com/attachments...0300%20cdd.pdf

http://www.jetsearch.com/attachments...vrgn%20ccd.pdf

BCA's Operations Planning Guide

Make sure the fuel price in the CDD evaluations is the same so you are looking at an apples-to-apples comparison.

BoilerUP. Thank you so much for the info. Its very helpful.

grimmdj, what we are looking for is operating costs and range. These guys are from SEA and they like Hawaii but it looks like the CE-680 might fall short of that.

Y.

Sovereign has qualified for an ETOPS exemption for Part 135 LA-Hawaii flights.

Interesting to note the profile above is for HSC; I'd imagine LRC or an intermediate setting would buy you more range.

If Seattle-Hawaii is the mission, I'd be thinking CL300 or Falcon 50EX/2000.

2700 mm is a realistic Sovereign range. Just ran the numbers today, 5:42, 9051 lbs fuel, FL 430. Our planes, 4 pax 2200 lbs fuel remaining.
Dave

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
grimmdj, I think the CE680 will make it to HI from SEA most of the times but not every time, without going out of OAK.

The big wigs need to decide if that's good enough for them or not.

Y.

The CE680 is limited on Hawaii legs, contrary to all of the opinions due to fuel limitations in the event of a rapid decompression. Single engine operation is not an issue.

LAX or SFO to Hawaii in the CE680 with winds of more than 45-50 knots (depending on azimuth) will only allow for scant fuel reserves (400-600 lbs.) after an emergency descent to 10,000 feet per the AFM.

There are operators (like the Cessna demo. pilots and the pilots with Citation Air) who will dispatch based on a flight profile that stipulates IF you have a rapid decompression, you will descend to FL250, fly for 180 minutes while the pilots and passengers deplete the oxygen supply, and then descend to 10,000 feet. This totally disregards the Sovereign AFM; there is no procedure for this. What would you breathe at minute 181 if the cabin/cockpit fills with smoke?

Med Aire and three FAA AME's that I have spoken with strenuously advise not to follow a procedure such as this due to trapped and evolved gas issues and other barotrauma that can occur. The non published procedure also assumes that the passengers in the back actually survived the mayhem of an emergency descent and actually got their masks on and secured with adequate flow.

Bottom line- do not dispatch unless you can have at least 1000 pounds of fuel over the depressurization ETP. This equates to 30 minutes of fuel...basically VFR fuel requirements after an emergency.

I think you will find winter winds, the CL 300 would also be close to having a wet footprint.GF