Tool of the day
01-11-2019, 10:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by Packrat
Ever heard of cold fuel frost? If they had a long trip and had super cooled fuel in the tank it could form frost on the upper surface of the wing. Then, if their gate was in the shade the frost may not have had time to melt thus resulting in the need to deice.
Once you make that decision, the entire aircraft needs to be deiced. You could argue that the tail didn't need deicing, but that Captain was most likely exercising his authority to make the most conservative decision. I had a buddy that this happened to in Denver on a blue sky day with the temperature in the 40s as well.
The MD-80 had this problem until they put the upper wing heater blankets on the airplanes.
Once you make that decision, the entire aircraft needs to be deiced. You could argue that the tail didn't need deicing, but that Captain was most likely exercising his authority to make the most conservative decision. I had a buddy that this happened to in Denver on a blue sky day with the temperature in the 40s as well.
The MD-80 had this problem until they put the upper wing heater blankets on the airplanes.
The MD80 issue was usually solved by running outside to the fuel panel right when you blocked and getting the cold wing fuel transferred into the center tank before the fueler showed up. A PITA...or you could just deice.
Also, even in this situation, if an airplane needs deicing, one is best served by letting the deicer decide what to spray. Limiting the surfaces that they can deice puts needless liability squarely on you.
01-11-2019, 10:57 AM
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by b82rez
Also, even in this situation, if an airplane needs deicing, one is best served by letting the deicer decide what to spray. Limiting the surfaces that they can deice puts needless liability squarely on you.
01-12-2019, 05:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by Immortan Joe
Ok, lets try this again since the first version of the story didn't make it past the mod filter. I guess the name of the airline hit too close to home or something. 🤷*♂️
I nominate the lone airline crew deicing both wings AND tail on the ramp in Vegas the other morning. With not a cloud in the sky and an OAT of 48F. 🤔🤨
I nominate the lone airline crew deicing both wings AND tail on the ramp in Vegas the other morning. With not a cloud in the sky and an OAT of 48F. 🤔🤨
01-12-2019, 05:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,909
Originally Posted by Immortan Joe
Ok, lets try this again since the first version of the story didn't make it past the mod filter. I guess the name of the airline hit too close to home or something. 🤷*♂️
I nominate the lone airline crew deicing both wings AND tail on the ramp in Vegas the other morning. With not a cloud in the sky and an OAT of 48F. 🤔🤨
I nominate the lone airline crew deicing both wings AND tail on the ramp in Vegas the other morning. With not a cloud in the sky and an OAT of 48F. 🤔🤨
01-12-2019, 06:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A320
Posts: 1,347
He may have a point after all.
I’ve never seen wing ice in Las Vegas or any climate that wasn’t humid. If it was raining that day maybe. Unsure what the weather was.
Even so unless SOPs forced me to I wouldn’t deice the tail too.
So it could be a crew that did the wrong thing or the right thing. Not enough info to blame either party IMO.
I’ve never seen wing ice in Las Vegas or any climate that wasn’t humid. If it was raining that day maybe. Unsure what the weather was.
Even so unless SOPs forced me to I wouldn’t deice the tail too.
So it could be a crew that did the wrong thing or the right thing. Not enough info to blame either party IMO.
01-12-2019, 06:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,909
Originally Posted by labbats
He may have a point after all.
I’ve never seen wing ice in Las Vegas or any climate that wasn’t humid. If it was raining that day maybe. Unsure what the weather was.
Even so unless SOPs forced me to I wouldn’t deice the tail too.
So it could be a crew that did the wrong thing or the right thing. Not enough info to blame either party IMO.
I’ve never seen wing ice in Las Vegas or any climate that wasn’t humid. If it was raining that day maybe. Unsure what the weather was.
Even so unless SOPs forced me to I wouldn’t deice the tail too.
So it could be a crew that did the wrong thing or the right thing. Not enough info to blame either party IMO.
01-12-2019, 06:44 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Originally Posted by labbats
I’ve never seen wing ice in Las Vegas or any climate that wasn’t humid. .
01-12-2019, 09:01 AM
Banned
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Some posts from new members are on "auot hold" until a mod sees and releases them. Some algorithm.
They *might* have had frost from the night before. Or dew that looked like frost (if it's a NB or bigger I'm not going to get a ladder and crawl around the top of the wing doing a tactile check). Keep in mind that a cell-phone pic of something that looks like frost could generate media interest and an annoying company/FAA investigation... got to respect the optics these days.
Or they might have been padding their block time, that's an old trick if the company is screwing over labor. Or they might have been just trying to stick it to the man (de-ice ain't cheap... ).
They *might* have had frost from the night before. Or dew that looked like frost (if it's a NB or bigger I'm not going to get a ladder and crawl around the top of the wing doing a tactile check). Keep in mind that a cell-phone pic of something that looks like frost could generate media interest and an annoying company/FAA investigation... got to respect the optics these days.
Or they might have been padding their block time, that's an old trick if the company is screwing over labor. Or they might have been just trying to stick it to the man (de-ice ain't cheap... ).
I vote you "Tool Of The Day"
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
