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Old 05-15-2015, 07:13 PM
  #6191  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Not quite true but almost true. There are very much "commonsense" rules and exceptions. For example, service dogs are allowed in the hospital, but not on our OR floors, chemo rooms where immunosuppressed patients may be, etc. They can't be where food is being prepared.

I'm sure that the airlines could get more legal leeway but the "black eye" they would get from the histrionic lawsuits that would follow is not worth it. I'm frankly surprised they allow non-service animals in the cabin.
I meant nobody can ban them from places where the general public has access. They're not allowed in the cockpit or the control room of a nuclear missile submarine either.

Airlines don't want bad publicity, and even more importantly they want to sell tickets...even at the risk of annoying their employees other customers. They will turn a blind eye until something really bad happens.
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:19 PM
  #6192  
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Originally Posted by LNL76 View Post
You're not permitted to ask what one's disability is, soooo, the loophole is huge in the ADA. If someone claims they need a "support animal" to fly, they get away with it.
Actually an employer or merchant could ask for details to

1) Ensure they properly accommodate the peron's needs and

2) To verify that accommodation is legitimately required. Although it seems like it, we're not required to provide accommodations to anyone and everyone just because they ask for it. It's legally reasonable to require verification..even though the media would say otherwise
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:43 PM
  #6193  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
There's a difference between a true service animal and "emotional support" pets.

Emotional support pets can be anything and are generally allowed in places other animals may not be such as restaurants. Service animals are highly trained and individually certified to behave in a safe manner in pretty much all situations.

Nobody can ban service animals. Airlines could ban emotional support pets who are not properly certified as actual service animals...but they just kind of wink at the pax, collect their fares, and let the crews deal with it.

Yup I meant to write emotional support pet..thanks


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Old 05-15-2015, 11:34 PM
  #6194  
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How to Take Your Pet Everywhere - The New Yorker

Amusing (in a crying on the inside sort of way) and informative article about emotional support animals. You should see what the author does with her emotional support reptiles and livestock.

Exerpt:
... In contrast to an emotional-support animal (E.S.A.), a service dog is trained to perform specific tasks, such as pulling a wheelchair and responding to seizures. The I.R.S. classifies these dogs as a deductible medical expense, whereas an emotional-support animal is more like a blankie. An E.S.A. is defined by the government as an untrained companion of any species that provides solace to someone with a disability, such as anxiety or depression. The rights of anyone who has such an animal are laid out in two laws. The Fair Housing Act says that you and your E.S.A. can live in housing that prohibits pets. The Air Carrier Access Act entitles you to fly with your E.S.A. at no extra charge, although airlines typically require the animal to stay on your lap or under the seat—this rules out emotional-support rhinoceroses. Both acts stipulate that you must have a corroborating letter from a health professional....
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:05 AM
  #6195  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Actually an employer or merchant could ask for details to

1) Ensure they properly accommodate the peron's needs and

2) To verify that accommodation is legitimately required. Although it seems like it, we're not required to provide accommodations to anyone and everyone just because they ask for it. It's legally reasonable to require verification..even though the media would say otherwise
Again #2 is reasonable though to some degree. Imagine you got shrapnel injury in war and just have to walk slowly, and then LNL and company asks you to "prove" it every time you fly. Gets old pretty quickly. I'd rather have a few freeloaders than a checkpoint/gestapo, which is why I feel just elminating the whole "advantage" for mildly handicapped would solve the problem.

Somebody who is nonambulatory is generally obvious and could make rare case-by-case accommodations.

Lady caridomd does litigation occasionally in this and related areas. I see you looked up the ADA wording - the "general public" has been focused on "can't blanketly ban" areas / businesses etc without reason. There are still "general public accessible" areas that dogs are not allowed, health, safety, even cases of religious areas etc., and while the original wording included general public area it has not held up or historically been enforced as strictly such.

ADA was a great law to prevent blanket discrimination, but people misinterpret it all the time (e.g. some people think you 'can't ask if somebody could do the job'). Of course an employer can ask about specifics - somebody who can't walk can't do a job that requires stairs etc. A custmoer who can't move his arms shouldn't go white water rafting. However every front line employee asking questions about a handicap may be perceived as harassment for better or worse, which is why LNL and other employees are told to not ask.
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:09 AM
  #6196  
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Originally Posted by Hetman View Post
How to Take Your Pet Everywhere - The New Yorker

Amusing (in a crying on the inside sort of way) and informative article about emotional support animals. You should see what the author does with her emotional support reptiles and livestock.

Exerpt:
Wow, those stories are simply horrible. I am unaware of any legal status of "emotional support" animals, will have to ask the better half after get back from FLYING.
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:20 AM
  #6197  
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I like Adam Carolla's idea. He wants to bring along his emotional support pelican, Gilligan. Suffice to say, this emotional support BS is getting out of hand.
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:40 AM
  #6198  
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This whole charade will be allowed to get ever more outrageous until someone's "ESA" decides to take a bite out of the face of an adjacent passenger. That's the only way legislation ever seems to get implemented in this country anymore.
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Old 05-16-2015, 12:29 PM
  #6199  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
There's a difference between a true service animal and "emotional support" pets.

Emotional support pets can be anything and are generally allowed in places other animals may not be such as restaurants. Service animals are highly trained and individually certified to behave in a safe manner in pretty much all situations.

Nobody can ban service animals. Airlines could ban emotional support pets who are not properly certified as actual service animals...but they just kind of wink at the pax, collect their fares, and let the crews deal with it.
A friend of mines older sister does this all the time. She brings this old dog of her basically everywhere she goes. She's a vet and has some other friends that are doctors so she got one of them to sign off some note that she needs this dog for support or whatever. I believe she told me she just doesn't want to pay to put in down under with all the other dogs
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Old 05-16-2015, 01:08 PM
  #6200  
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Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Wow, those stories are simply horrible. I am unaware of any legal status of "emotional support" animals, will have to ask the better half after get back from FLYING.
So got my legal in-house counsel and apparently both LNL and I were right, there is apparently supersets of regulations regarding access and "public access" transportation carriers that prohibit asking of disabilities (not ADA act, which I am familiar with as MD). It is designed to prevent the "screening" of disabled-appearing people as I referenced above.

LNL is correct airlines and employees are apparently legally prohibited from asking what a disability is, but may ask if specific functions are able (e.g. can you lift 10 pounds). Most are defined in the Air Carrier Access Act which was apparently passed around the time of the ADA under pressure from a veterans group and is a famous precursor. Lady cardiomd feels strongly this was needed because prior there would be no incentive to remotely accommodate somebody not ambulatory or who might slow them down.

Just got back and read the New Yorker article. From the anecdotes the front-line employees just don't want to be accused of causing a scene and don't recognize the distinction between service animals and non-service animals. The person comes up with some official-looking paperwork and the employee doesn't know any better / care enough to verify so the animal gets in.

I'm really suprised that these Emotional Support Animals have ANY sort of legal standing, and I take back my earlier skepticisim. Wow it is ridiculous.

Service Animals | Delta Air Lines

Originally Posted by mike734 View Post
I like Adam Carolla's idea. He wants to bring along his emotional support pelican, Gilligan. Suffice to say, this emotional support BS is getting out of hand.
Yeah I agree. The setup is just ripe for abuse.
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