Hello,

I am very seriously considering buy a Piper Apache 1956 (Cash). I have several family members who wanna be professional pilots. So, I am considering buying and training them, but I need to have a very indepth understanding of the cost of ownership/ purchasing. If I am going to pay the asking price cash. But please fill me in on whats I can expect to pay after. Thank you guys so much.

Without knowing the prop and engine specifics this is just a guess:

Fuel and oil will be around $110/hr based on $5.50 100LL
A new engine would cost $30K - $35K
A new prop should cost between $25K - $30K
Check with local A&P's to price an Annual
Shop insurance

I think purchase price + $50,000 - $75,000 cash reserve should allow you to operate with an adequate cushion for the maintenance you're sure to encounter. Hourly operating costs are on top of the maint. reserves. It's always nice to have maint. cash stockpiled, but if you don't have a pile of cash, be sure to pay yourself a maintenance hold back per hour and hope you don't break anything in the first 100 hours or so. That said, make sure you have a pile of cash.

Don't forget hangar/tie down and taxes. I "obtained" a nifty Excel sheet that will break out fixed and operating expenses as well as factor in reserves for engine, prop, paint, avionics, interior, etc. PM me an email address and I'll shoot it your way. I also found a similar one at aircraft operating costs spreadsheet although I don't think it's as detailed. You can also google "aircraft operating costs spreadsheet"

It's all based on how many hours/year are flown.

I've been thinking about splitting costs with someone and buying something like a Cesna 150/152, or something similar in price range.

Maybe even develop a club around it, although sometimes (most) clubs develop restrictions for training others in the aircraft.

Either way, it would help recoupe maintenance costs, etc..

N9373M - I am interested in your spreadsheet as well. Would you mind shooting me a PM with it?

Thanks

Oh, you will get a very in depth understanding, no worries...

I always liked the look of the old Apache.

AN ABSOLUTE MUST...

you must get a thorough pre-buy inspection. I don't mean a quick walk around, look at the paint type.

You must pull panels and above all, have an IA check the status of A.D.'s. Also, you must get a complete title search and FAA download of all previously filed FAA Form 337's. I can't tell you how many owners bring me modified aircraft with no documentation. They all look pretty sad when I tell them that its going to be X amount of hours ($$) to research, document and submit a 337 for something they were previously flying around with.
For example: a simple annual on a 172 revealed 7 major repairs and alterations that were not documented,, plus I discovered it had the wrong prop on it.
So, please, do yourself a favor, get a thorough pre-buy inspection... there are too many good airplanes for sale out there to waste time and money on a piece of crap.

Oooohhh that reminded me - we purchased our plane locally (50 nm radius) and had the prebuy done by the same guy who did the annuals. All was well.

We decided to take the plane to another A+P for our first annual (closer, less "mom+pop") and there were items he was not happy with. 10K for that annual on a 66 Mooney M20E. Subsequent annuals went back to the first guy. Both shops are very well respected, and have a long local history - just a matter of A+P judgement (or profit).

Not saying that you are disagreeing with me,, but the wrong prop and improper flight control repairs is hardly a matter of judgement. Its pretty black and white. Does the aircraft meet the Type Certificate and Data Sheet? Is there any repair or alteration that falls under the desription of FAR part 43 appx A? If somebody trusts me with their aircraft, then I have the responsibility to inspect the aircraft and be honest with the owner and myself if it conforms. Again,, pretty black and white.

Make sure to get one with the Geronimo Conversion.