My company has paid for two types. It was never a factor when I applied/interviewed. They were just looking for someone who they thought would fit in and met the insurance minimums.

This is an excellent point. I think the better corporate flight departments will take this approach. We hired a SIC that didn't meet the type rating requirements of the job did excel in the "Nice to haves." We brought him on board and paid for his type ratings.

The point here is that just because a person may not meet all the job requirements, they should apply anyway. One doesn't really know what is really important to an employer until you interview.

Often times, "insurance minimums" is a candidate screening excuse, and a BS one at that.

The aviation insurance market has been and continues to be soft, and anybody who has an ounce of negotiating power (and a half-ass broker) should be able to get just about anybody that has basic minimal qualifications (say, ATP, 2000tt, 500 multi) qualified as SIC on any jet this side of a long range/large cabin type, and as PIC with not much more experience than that.

Be wary of the entry level openings. Operators will use this to lowball you in pay and qol.

Okay I'm gonna have to point out that an entry level guy without experience requires a lot of help. Having to babysit an inexperienced guy is taxing on the senior guys and everyone has to be willing to do it. Not like an entry level guy should expect to come in somewhere at the top of the salary end with two weeks off a month. A guy has to pay his dues somewhere.

I'm not arguing for sub par wages or schedule abuse, but entry level jobs are entry level jobs.

There is nothing wrong with "entry level"

It does not mean you get treated any differently than other pilots in the operation, other than pay and other benefits that grow w seniority/experience.

We would start an "entry level" SIC type guy at 110-130K (well below Captain pay in type) and they would go to school and get typed. The problem is 90 days later when FSI calls them a PIC and they have 30 hours in the plane and they really think they can be out there making 160-200K as other PICs do.

Lots of entitlement out there today...another reason to avoid the "hire the type rating" mentality. Id rather hire a good guy with some Citation time than an entitled guy with a Global/GV/Falcon rating.

I was this pilot a little over 5 years ago (in an attempt to get TPIC as quickly as possible, I ain't making close to his newhire pay as a Citation pilot in the midwest) and NC "gently" set me straight.

The difference between then and now is, surprise surprise - experience. I lacked it then, and I've got more now.

"Entry level position" or not, driving the airplane is generally the easy part of the job - its all the other stuff associated with the a gig (including familiarity with the specific operation, type of flying done and the airframe) and the attitude of a given pilot that really sets "entry level" apart from "experienced".

I have been asked if it would be difficult for me to go from a young light cabin Chief Pilot to an SIC on a much larger airframe - answer was NO, it would not, and I'm not sure I was believed.

A man's gotta know his limitations...but he's also got to be a good blend of confident yet humble. You gotta know what you don't know, and have a desire to learn it from those who can teach that which you lack.

IMO

/thread hijack

IMO this is actually the IDEAL new-hire, especially in a large department.

You can get anyone a rating and fill a seat, but finding motivation and desire to lead is not as easy. Always hire leaders.

This is the part people are missing when they say "type rating required" Its very rare to find the rating, experience, and the above mentality. If someone has it all, I question why they are shopping for a job. Most guys I know with all those boxes checked are not unemployed, and certainly don't want an "entry level" type job.

Back on thread, YES apply to the jobs that say rating required/preferred even if you don't have it. But keep in mind applying online is not how you get a job. Its not how you hire a good person. Most of the time, applying is an HR requirement after the fact. They have to know you from rec's or from years of networking.

Like others here, I never met the minimum requirements for the jobs I have gotten...so go for it. Call people, talk to people, ask for 5 mins of their time..and follow up frequently. I have seen this work over and over again.

Good Luck!

Ummm who do you work for? And can I please be an 'entry-level' SIC at your company?

Metro NY area. 120K start does not go as far as many other places, and it should be higher...but its not as bad as many think. We happen to be starting an experienced guy in August and he will be at 150K. Thats more of a liveable wage IMO.