Bottom of SWA or bottom of new American?
11-17-2013, 09:45 AM
#21
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
Originally Posted by John Carr
I would agree with all that. But the more and more time I spend in a SW JS, they seem to be flying less legs than they traditionally did. And a DAL friend of mine showed me his domestic 757 rotation. 14 legs in 4 days, longest overnight is 13 hours. Not ALL the time, but good grief.
When I'm 60, do I wanna do that? Heeeeeeeeeck no. But at 60, I'm not sure I wanna be doing back side of the clock European 3 days either. OR 3.5-4 day orient trips. I KNOW, they pay well and give time off. But where I commuted from, there's A LOT of very senior/silverbacks that do that. They're in their mid to late 50's, they look like death warmed over commuting home with them.
When I'm 60, do I wanna do that? Heeeeeeeeeck no. But at 60, I'm not sure I wanna be doing back side of the clock European 3 days either. OR 3.5-4 day orient trips. I KNOW, they pay well and give time off. But where I commuted from, there's A LOT of very senior/silverbacks that do that. They're in their mid to late 50's, they look like death warmed over commuting home with them.
11-17-2013, 01:29 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 737
I'd be interested in hearing from a SWA guy on how their relative seniority affects trip quality. Do senior guys get day turns worth 8 hours? Are junior guys resigned to 10 leg 3-day trips? Are they all 3 day trips, or a mix of 1, 2, 3, 4 days?
At AA at least, the senior-most nb domestic trips are typically day turns worth 7 to 8 hours, with those going West (like DFW-SEA) being preferred to DFW-LGA. We have guys that have been on the MD-80 for 20 years and do nothing but the same sequence, forever and ever. They know every frequency between DFW and SEA! There's a lot to be said for comfortable routine.
At AA at least, the senior-most nb domestic trips are typically day turns worth 7 to 8 hours, with those going West (like DFW-SEA) being preferred to DFW-LGA. We have guys that have been on the MD-80 for 20 years and do nothing but the same sequence, forever and ever. They know every frequency between DFW and SEA! There's a lot to be said for comfortable routine.
11-17-2013, 02:21 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Wicked Artsy, Moderately Fartsy
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by strikeagledrivr
You wise old airline guys dust off your crystal ball.....for us military folks new to the 121 airline gig what's your advice....
I'll give you a current perspective from someone who is one step ahead of you leaving the military for the first time:
Location, Location, Location.
You don't want to move around any more, you don't want to fly to get to work and you don't want to share beds and rooms anymore than you already had to in the military. You see the pay scales are always shifting and there are always unions and carriers either on the rise or in decline...no one carrier is going to be perfectly protected. I've noticed that morale and perspective changes based on seniority and life experiences so there isn't one company where everybody is happy or free of rotten employees.
Location, Location, Location.
Your junior line number will mean last choice of vacations and last choice of flying lines (and even reserve lines) so why further constrict your lack of choices by losing time with commuting and sitting reserve outside your house? One of the more notable differences I've become aware of is after you run your last checklist, you are done. No office visits, no hanging out, no nagging list of requirements or videos to watch. Your time begins as soon as you are done at the aircraft...why give any of that time up? There are projections and estimates of when people can move domiciles or upgrade but why gamble? You also want your next interview to be your last one. Set your work up in a location that meets all of your other life goals and remember:
the people who survive this industry when it constricts are the people at the top...you don't get to the top without time served.
11-17-2013, 02:33 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
i have flown 3 airplanes i wouldn't mind spending a decade or so on,the DC3,the 727,and the 747,but back to the original post, its all apples and oranges,get the offer first, you really could not go to far wrong with either,or.
11-17-2013, 03:15 PM
#26
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
The best gig going seems to be wide body AA FO who can promote to captain but elects to stay FO.
If this was 1995, I would say SWA (due to upgrade times), but it is 2013, and from merely an upgrade time standpoint/build seniority quick standpoint, I would say AA, in 2013
If this was 1995, I would say SWA (due to upgrade times), but it is 2013, and from merely an upgrade time standpoint/build seniority quick standpoint, I would say AA, in 2013
11-17-2013, 03:23 PM
#27
La Familia Delta
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
Originally Posted by satpak77
The best gig going seems to be wide body AA FO who can promote to captain but elects to stay FO.
If this was 1995, I would say SWA (due to upgrade times), but it is 2013, and from merely an upgrade time standpoint/build seniority quick standpoint, I would say AA, in 2013
If this was 1995, I would say SWA (due to upgrade times), but it is 2013, and from merely an upgrade time standpoint/build seniority quick standpoint, I would say AA, in 2013
11-17-2013, 07:37 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
I would say AA, but only from a seniority moving standpoint due to hiring and retirements. Get the 10yr upgrade out of your mind as that is extremely optimistic. The qol will get better quicker.
Then just feed through the rest of the posts, but remember that those are just our opinions. You know what they say about those.
GL.
Then just feed through the rest of the posts, but remember that those are just our opinions. You know what they say about those.
GL.
11-17-2013, 08:37 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 825
Originally Posted by gooddeal
I'll give you a current perspective from someone who is one step ahead of you leaving the military for the first time:
Location, Location, Location.
You don't want to move around any more, you don't want to fly to get to work and you don't want to share beds and rooms anymore than you already had to in the military. You see the pay scales are always shifting and there are always unions and carriers either on the rise or in decline...no one carrier is going to be perfectly protected. I've noticed that morale and perspective changes based on seniority and life experiences so there isn't one company where everybody is happy or free of rotten employees.
Location, Location, Location.
Your junior line number will mean last choice of vacations and last choice of flying lines (and even reserve lines) so why further constrict your lack of choices by losing time with commuting and sitting reserve outside your house? One of the more notable differences I've become aware of is after you run your last checklist, you are done. No office visits, no hanging out, no nagging list of requirements or videos to watch. Your time begins as soon as you are done at the aircraft...why give any of that time up? There are projections and estimates of when people can move domiciles or upgrade but why gamble? You also want your next interview to be your last one. Set your work up in a location that meets all of your other life goals and remember:
the people who survive this industry when it constricts are the people at the top...you don't get to the top without time served.
Location, Location, Location.
You don't want to move around any more, you don't want to fly to get to work and you don't want to share beds and rooms anymore than you already had to in the military. You see the pay scales are always shifting and there are always unions and carriers either on the rise or in decline...no one carrier is going to be perfectly protected. I've noticed that morale and perspective changes based on seniority and life experiences so there isn't one company where everybody is happy or free of rotten employees.
Location, Location, Location.
Your junior line number will mean last choice of vacations and last choice of flying lines (and even reserve lines) so why further constrict your lack of choices by losing time with commuting and sitting reserve outside your house? One of the more notable differences I've become aware of is after you run your last checklist, you are done. No office visits, no hanging out, no nagging list of requirements or videos to watch. Your time begins as soon as you are done at the aircraft...why give any of that time up? There are projections and estimates of when people can move domiciles or upgrade but why gamble? You also want your next interview to be your last one. Set your work up in a location that meets all of your other life goals and remember:
the people who survive this industry when it constricts are the people at the top...you don't get to the top without time served.
BTW, what's junior domicile at American these days?
11-18-2013, 04:40 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Sky Nazi or Kool Aid drinker? My own opinion is mil guys put too much initial emphasis on atmosphere, not economics or upgrades. Five years into your career you will finally understand nobody in management gives a tinkers damn about you, so go based on:
Long term stability
Domicile options
Upgrade demographics
Type flying
Pay
Why is pay last? It often changes. The other factors can also change but tend to be more static.
International flying is cool for all the reasons indicated. More money, more adventure, more time off. I would go Us Air/AA and never look back.
Long term stability
Domicile options
Upgrade demographics
Type flying
Pay
Why is pay last? It often changes. The other factors can also change but tend to be more static.
International flying is cool for all the reasons indicated. More money, more adventure, more time off. I would go Us Air/AA and never look back.
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