Hello,

Long time CFI here, no airline goals - just doing this part time for now (or forever, maybe).

I ran into a potential instrument candidate that mentioned he did a lot of his private pilot training at night. I've never done this with a student as I always felt a clearly perceptible horizon was necessary. I'm not questioning his honesty, I was just very surprised because it is not very common.

Has anyone on here provided (or received) a large chunk of primary training to a student at night? If so, what were your thoughts?

Thanks!

While it wasn't ever a large chunk, I've done plenty of private pilot training at night.

I believe it to be an invaluable learning experience and helps reinforce the small amount of instrument flying necessary for completing the license's training. Sometimes you don't have a very perceptible horizon, as you mentioned, and your AI becomes a needed instrument to guide you.

This all being said I don't believe doing the bulk of the training at night is necessary.

did he do all of his training at night? or just a good portion? I can see 20 hour or so just because of scheduling issues, but as a CFI i will NEVER give a solo night endorsement to a student, never ever ever. Its just not worth it. Just my personal practice. But giving extra night lessons, sure!

I can't remember doing much night training for my PPL (but it has been awhile ago), though I do/did enjoy flying at night and probably had more night time initially than some pilots with similar experience. Now IR training on the other hand - I've heard of quite a few people doing a lot of night training; and for good reason I'd venture to say.

I'll echo all the other decent opinions that for private pilot candidates, night should be kept to the FAA required minimum hours. The student needs to see the visible (day) horizon to develop a sense of attitude awareness such as how the airplane looks while doing various air work maneuvers. Private pilot is not an instrument rating and I discourage night dual hours other than needed to meet minimum for the certificate.

Also, I agree a night solo signoff for a private pilot candidate is not a wise idea. Flying is brand new to this group. They need to do their instrument ticket before they fly at night solo. My understanding of the few hours of instrument training given to private pilots is something to provide an emergency instrument skill set until they get an instrument ticket. It is not adequate for night flying, which can easily turn into serious IFR flying.

Where I teach, we have a night solo flight in the pattern that all our private students do.

I would recommend a dual night t/o from a isolated (dark) field. After PPL and just 100 hours in, took off solo from a poduk field and as soon as I rotated lost all visual cues and had to go on instruments, got re-oriented and dropped the nose to get back visual.

I think the minimum PPL nights hour should be done in real night conditions with very minimal visual references so as to expose the student to what he'll be dealing with if blasts off willy-nilly on a night XC the day after he gets his PPL.

That said I would have no problem doing most of a students private training at night IF you're in a large metro area with vast lighted areas. Plenty of horizon and he'll get very comfortable at night. Day flying is always easier, so he won't be missing much IMO. Just sayin I wouldn't turn the guy away. Now if you're in rural Nebraska or someplace like that it wouldn't make sense, the student would essentially be working on an instrument rating.

Yup. By the time I solo them they have already done a night flight to another airport and done some air work at night. then the night solo is restricted to 3 full stop taxi backs in the pattern after I have done landings with them prior that same night.

Here's some more things to think about if you really want do this.

• Ground reference maneuvers require daylight for best results.
• A student who cannot land the plane in day gets worse at night.
• Crosswind skills get hard to teach with less visual data coming in. Most students cannot line up with the centerline to begin with, it gets worse with no centerline.
• While it could be said that crosswind skills at night matter less because there is less wind, it is a disservice to students not putting them in crosswinds during the day so they can learn more. Also, night wind events can be pretty severe when wind shear due to inversion occurs.
• Inside of the airplane can be hard to see at night for dual instruction purposes.
• It is best to give the students a day intro to the pilotage cues they will see when they do their day cross countries.
• Trainers are some of the least reliable aircraft around, an off airport landing at night is really dangerous. Why put a new pilot through the possibility.

If you have a student who really wants some solo night flight solo, as the earlier poster said, confine it to the airport pattern. As far as dual instruction is concerned air work at night or above a cloud deck is pretty feasible.