Who sets the altitude pre-selector? - Page 4 - Airline Pilot Central Forums

#31

Justdoinmyjob , 10-22-2014 03:31 AM

Looking for a laugh

In the end, some companies do it one way, some do it the other way. Both ways have been shown to be acceptable to the FAA. Depending where you are, that's the way you do it, regardless of your personal preference. If and when you change employers, if they do it differently than what you are used to, you adapt or you move on.

All that said, at Delta the PM makes changes with the AP off, as directed by the PF. PF makes changes with the AP on, or can direct the PM to make changes during high work loads (below 10K.) If you come here, that's how you do it. Please don't tell us how you did it at your other airline and how it was so much better. Don't be "that" guy.

#32

pagey , 10-22-2014 03:33 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy

If I remember correctly(Not 100% sure) airways guys have the PM set the ALT. At least from the view of my jumpseat.

PF at Airways.

#33

CBreezy , 10-22-2014 03:36 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagey

PF at Airways.

Yeah. Must've been the UAL flight deck. I know one of the majors did it.

#34

gojo , 10-22-2014 04:10 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Because the PM would have to 1. hear the altitude from ATC, 2. acknowledge the altitude from ATC, 3. set the altitude from ATC in the window and 4. receive confirmation from the PF that what was set corresponded with #1 & 2, as well as matched what the PF heard.

While I agree that both pilots are responsible for being aware of what is going on and listening to the radio, it further reduces the errors and confirmation bias that occurs in every two-crew cockpit (regardless of how sharp crewmembers are, or how standard procedures are), especially when task loading/workload is high...with a reduction in altitude deviations showing that the process is effective.

"Bumping hands" is the lesser of the two evils, don't you think?

That being said, I don't think "your way" is "wrong"...but it is different than the two 91 operations and two 121 operations I have worked at.

Well pilot monitoring is just that. That includes listening to the radio and ensuring the pilot flying heard the same thing and that the correct altitude change is made. When task loading/workload is high (autopilot off) the pilot monitoring does all changes to the MCP. With task loading/workload reduced (autopilot on) it should just be controlled by the pilot flying. By using your logic changes between NAV/HDG/APP mode as well as heading changes should also be made by the pilot monitoring with autopilot engaged to keep the pilot monitoring in the loop and reduce course deviations. I have had to do it both ways and I feel one hand on any panel at a time is enough. The reduction in altitude deviations has more to do with challenge/response and breaking the error chain than who's doing it.

#35

BoilerUP , 10-22-2014 04:24 AM

The NeverEnding Story

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob

Thread's over folks, last one out turn off the lights...

#36

aviatorhi , 10-22-2014 08:37 AM

Banned

Can't believe someone wasted ink saying who touches what knob.

(Also: giggity)

#37

Akbush , 10-22-2014 11:28 AM

Line Holder

Whom ever does it....does it......some times the PM does it or the PF

#38

BenS , 10-22-2014 12:12 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaceBiter

I'm always the PF even when I'm not. Therefore, I set whatever I want, whenever I want.

Haha... Exactly... Why not always have the captain set it? It is, after all, always his plane... He merely loans the privilege of flying to the FO only when he desires to do so..

#39

aviatorhi , 10-22-2014 06:06 PM

Banned

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akbush

Whom ever does it....does it......some times the PM does it or the PF

Common sense. We're all doomed!!!

#40

bonesbrigade , 10-23-2014 10:56 AM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by gojo

I agree. The only one I ever saw do it differently was Pinnacle. But they did a few things weird such as shutting the flight deck door before the boarding door. Chime 5 minutes prior to landing to name a few

Yeah, wanna hear the stupid part? On the 900 the PF sets the altitude bug at Pinnacle!

I personally hated it.... when being cleared for approach, descent, and turned onto the LOC, the pilots wouuld both reach up and cross swords on the MCP.

I do however like the 5 mnute chime... FAs are often dense, and they dn't understand that hearing a gear and flaps coming down means that we are landing... so the 5 minute chime gave them some time to get prepared.
Pinnacle also had really good checklists... we use the XJ checklists on the 900 and they are wretched.

For example. the before takeoff check bbelow the line:
Item 1-FO-RUnway 3-6, heading Three Six Zero, first fix Chanute, engine failure proc is straight out heading 360, flaps 8, flex thrust, 88.8 for 88.4, Final Takeoff Brief.
Capt: Final Takeoff Brief COmplete.

ITEM FRIGGIN 2 ON THE Before Takeoff Checklist:
FO: Runway heading first fix...
Capt-Runway Three Six, Heading three six zero, first fix cchanute.
FO; Runway three six ditto ditto

It is so stupid, all while taxiing around congested airports.