Air France 447 - Interesting article

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Quote: Agree. It is one thing to solve problems from a system level, and quite another for those of us on the "sharp end" to have to deal with a poorly designed system. I have the "luxury" of working both ends of this. I have thought much about this and in the end, the reason others have survived comes down to a few issues:

1. Unfortunately, luck is involved to a certain extent. Some events just are not the same duration or involve quite the same set of circumstances. Like microburst events, there is just some random probability involved.;

2. In the cases where crews flew through without significant issue, in every case I am aware of there was at least one person at the controls with "legacy" experience, experience that came with years of flying prior to the introduction of augmented control systems and RVSM rules, where pilots still had to really hand fly a real airplane at altitude. No amount of hand-flying a FBW airplane will prepare a pilot for the handling qualities at higher altitudes without degrading it into direct law. It is just not the same animal.
So in number 2 you are stating that Airbus built a airliner that cannot be hand flown at altitude and ICAO and the FAA approved it's use. If that's the case I will just stick to the A300.
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If there had been a piece of yarn on the outside of each side window, couldn't that have cleared up their understanding in time to recover?
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Quote: So in number 2 you are stating that Airbus built a airliner that cannot be hand flown at altitude and ICAO and the FAA approved it's use. If that's the case I will just stick to the A300.
Didn't say it could not be. We are just not training people to do so if they have not had previous outside experience. Same for the Boeings.
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Quote: If there had been a piece of yarn on the outside of each side window, couldn't that have cleared up their understanding in time to recover?
Unfortunately the flow is more complex than that, the short answer is "maybe". An uncorrected AoA would be difficult to sort out absent specific training. Like radar, absent training to interpret it there is only limited value.
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Quote: Wait, ok, so...airplane is plummeting towards the ground, radar power, in the bars, still plummeting. We need to have a symposium to decide whether or not, you know, maybe they should be mildly criticized for not at least trying out lowering the nose? Is this for real? Is Alan Fundt hiding in the bushes?
Exactly. At some point the groupthink and overanalysis needs to stop. Many other crews encountered the same situation as this crew and did not get into a deep stall.

If you are rapidly losing altitude and your attitude is level, your AOA is high. Simple as that. Either accelerated stall, or regular stall (around 1G). Bonin was fixed on "vitesse fou" and was convinced of the overspeed, but ultimately this was a poor recognition of a situation that should be clear to all pilots, not just pilots of their caliber.
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Regardless, I say it is nuts to enter a 50,000+ C/B and not expect anything but an exciting outcome.
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Quote: Exactly. At some point the groupthink and overanalysis needs to stop. Many other crews encountered the same situation as this crew and did not get into a deep stall.

If you are rapidly losing altitude and your attitude is level, your AOA is high. Simple as that. Either accelerated stall, or regular stall (around 1G). Bonin was fixed on "vitesse fou" and was convinced of the overspeed, but ultimately this was a poor recognition of a situation that should be clear to all pilots, not just pilots of their caliber.
So simple in hindsight, but an incredibly naive post.
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Quote: Regardless, I say it is nuts to enter a 50,000+ C/B and not expect anything but an exciting outcome.
So where would your radar have been tilted to identify the storm?
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Quote: So simple in hindsight, but an incredibly naive post.
So what else could it be? The dozens of pilots that entered identical situations figured it out. Sometimes the simplest solution is correct, and the same stick and rudder principles apply no matter what you are flying.

As a professional I encounter myriad potentially confusing situations, and am not at the bottom few percent, and try to help those that are. Sorry you feel this is complicated!
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Quote: So what else could it be? The dozens of pilots that entered identical situations figured it out. Sometimes the simplest solution is correct, and the same stick and rudder principles apply no matter what you are flying.

As a professional I encounter myriad potentially confusing situations, and am not at the bottom few percent, and try to help those that are. Sorry you feel this is complicated!
A different scenario than the others encountered. The similarities end with the loss of airspeed.
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