A bleed off T.O., sooner or later somebody will get the masks.

Most jets give a warning at 10,000 feet, so you should have time to turn on the bleeds before they drop. Also, I would rather have to deal with masks dropping every once and a while than not making a required climb gradient due to fuselage ice.

Nobody's talking about not getting the full body deiced. There's a distinct difference between deice and anti ice. I'm pretty sure the 50 plus years AWAC has been taking off without adding type 4 to the fuselage, and not crashing, wasn't just sheer luck. This is strictly a lawyer created problem. Nobody wants to assume the liability.

Exactly. That, and the fact that Bombardier specifically allows a certain amount of ice ('hoar frost'?) on the upper fuselage. Now they are saying it's a critical surface and must be sprayed with Type IV? What did I miss?

Watch out with putting the bleeds on at a higher altitude. On some types of planes you are going to be popping people's ear drums.

I am talking about anti-ice. And lack of an accident does not mean it is safe. They actually do not do any real world testing for fuselage icing. The test the anti-ice systems of the aircraft, not how much ice the thing can handle.

And this is not an airline specific thing. The FAA counts the fuselage as a critical surface now and companies are just matching their procedures to the FAA for liability.

Departing with the packs off is normal for ERJs, so it is not like I am making this procedure up. Obviously, do not do anything contrary to training/SOPs. I was just trying to let CRJ pilots know that taking off unpressurized is not dangerous in itself. On the ERJ, we would turn one pack on at around 1,000 feet and turn the other one on after the After Takeoff checklist. That would prevent a pressurization bump.

A couple years ago the FAA put out an AC stating that Type IV would slide off sloping surfaces and leave them unprotected; therefore operators had to keep flaps/slats up until just before takeoff OR take a substantial hit to holdover times.

Isn't the fuselage, a long tube, essentially one big sloping surface?

Zero points for consistency.

Isn't that normal for the FAA? This job only gets difficult when pilots try to make sense of something.

Wait wait wait...original poster plz post the memo on here ...this isn't making much sense. I think you read it wrong...the company made an error...or you are taking second hand information as fact...

De-Ice is different than Anti-Ice
I have flown operations that allow up to enough ice that you can clearly identify rivets and letters through the ice...( I always requested full body DEICE type 1) whatever that is...

Now with the unpressurized take off...I don't know because I haven't read this document...

The only thing I can think of is that it's just another way of keeping DEICE fluid out of the packs...but there are better ways of skinning a cat right?
Plz post the letter from company for us.