Chris, you actually get it here. Envoy is not going to flow themselves out of business just to honor the contract. After the last 824 flows over, you will see a significant readjustment of the Envoy flow downward to a more palatable number. Say 8 to 10 per month.

The union is likely to play ball as they would rather have SOME flow than none at all while the company goes against the agreement and YEARS are spent duking it out before reaching a last minute decision. See LTFO grievance. STILL going on from 2012 and STILL not a complete resolution And a lousy settlement to boot.

Right now, Envoy is a dumpster fire. A dumpster fire that is a ticking time bomb regarding staffing.

Does your crystal ball tell you the lotto numbers too? You're the very last person on this forum anyone should be taking advise from!

It seems that you're a dumpster fire after being fired from envoy. Get it together. I hear Mesa is hiring.

I've posted on a lot of subjects besides Envoy. I'm not the one whining like a schoolgirl because others inside and outside Envoy want to B.S. people about Envoy.

What specifically was you question about 2013 ?

It's just moving deck chairs on the Titanic. This fall they will flow 20-30/month and lose another 10/month to outside attrition.

If they slow the flow to 10/month, you will see attrition pick up to at least 20-30/month as guys that were hanging around for the flow check out.

In either scenario, the airline is shrinking. If they want people to stay, they're going to have to do something drastic. The more they need the pilots, the more money they will throw at them. Things are more likely to keep going in that direction, not get dramatically worse, as you claim. Might be a dumpster fire for management, but the pilots are doing just fine.


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I second this. Our staffing debacle is full tilt. If the company takes away from anything it is currently offering, it will only serve to make people leave quicker. The Union should offer ZERO negotiations right now. Let our "Leaders" fix the problems or not. The flow should be the least of the worries. They need to get people in the door or we will not last much more than a couple years

I agree that the pilots will be just fine. There will be plenty of jobs out there. It's a matter of seniority as well. Some here may not think Spirit or Jetblue is a place to land and that the flow will take them to AA. It may or may not. Getting on at a LCC gives you just as good a chance to get in the door at AA or any other legacy.

It's been established on this forum that you HATE envoy and everything about it. Mind telling us why or the reason you got fired?

Umm what?! In the history of APC, I don't think there has ever been someone who whines like a school girl as much as you!!!!!!!

Your slip is showing again. This is all you ever have. Highlighting the fact Envoys upgrade/flow projections are inflated hypotheticals is not whining. Highlighting the fact Envoy's pilot recruitment is flaccid (with the defect increasing every month) is not whining. Highlighting the fact Envoy is shrinking because of that and will soon be in dire straits because of it is not whining. Highlighting the slew of complaints about life at Enviy as a pilot from BOTH pilots and even the Association isn't whining.

What you do in response just like your post here is...........

WHINING.