Cujo665

Even with the potential fall back rates; it's still very good, and is what we had been telling them to start working towards since the bankruptcy and the 2013-2015 concessionary battle. They kept demanding concessions, while we kept telling them to start paying and treating everybody better. They'd have avoided a crap-ton of staffing headaches if they'd have listened to us back then, and gradually worked their way up to this instead of creating crisis after crisis with bandaid fix after bandaid fix for 9 years before realizing we were right and doing the right thing.

Glad it finally happened and to see the guys having it much much better than we ever did. Everything from commuter hotels, long call, to real pay. It's great to see it happening.

That said, a five year flow is still a long time in this market. A guy just off IOE can get just about any LCC s/he wants, and if you work at it, Delta-Fedex-UPS-United are within reach too. Why would anybody wait 4+ years to flow when they can very often be gone in their first year? If you absolutely ant AA, it's probably worth staying now, but if it isn't a deal breaker, I'd still be looking to move up and out at the first opportunity.
Example, Frontier is planning to almost double in size over the next year or so. Anybody on property now, or soon will be a captain in a very short time. What's a career of Captain pay vs waiting 4 years to flow to first year FO pay. The frontier guy (with some OT) will already be 1 million ahead.

Envoy is a good job, but there are better ones available that are still worth moving to. This change will only stop or slow the ones that were going to go to an LCC as a stepping stone to increase their street hire ability at Majors & Legacies. Still, for many who live in an Envoy base, this just became a great job.

planejoe

Just following the rumor train here...

If Envoy were to lose a base would it be MIA? Are there any issues with keeping the over water cert right now? Hard to believe Envoy would go down to 2 bases total so what would be a hypothetical new base if MIA did close?

Is it true that no CA upgrades were offered MIA lately?

highfarfast

It is true that no CA upgrades were offered in MIA on yesterday's Vacancy/Displacement notification. However, it looks to me that DFW 145 is going to be the first to close. There were 20 DFW 145 FO displacements in the notification. No MIA displacements.

BigZ

There were no ORD upgrades offered on the spring and winter bid, now there are. MIA had CA slots those same two bids. Can't make a "omg base is closing" determination with the limited information.

planejoe

It was that coupled with a few other things like the EOW cert possibly being taken away, don’t know why or how that would even be possible.