ICED
07-22-2016, 03:53 AM
#101
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
The guys who are saying "that's not so bad" are missing the point. Even if nothing changes, in this environment, that's unacceptable. But stuff has changed. Overwhelmingly for the worst. If we can't make improvements now, we never will.
Guys with decades left need to consider how this contract will set a precedent for the rest of your careers.
UPS pilots had the guts to see it through and were rewarded. Will we have the resolve to take the time and make the necessary changes (adios to at least 3 of the negotiators) to knock it out if the park? What we se here is a swinging bunt...out at first.
Guys with decades left need to consider how this contract will set a precedent for the rest of your careers.
UPS pilots had the guts to see it through and were rewarded. Will we have the resolve to take the time and make the necessary changes (adios to at least 3 of the negotiators) to knock it out if the park? What we se here is a swinging bunt...out at first.
07-22-2016, 04:27 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: I got into this business so I wouldn't have to work.
Posts: 1,034
Originally Posted by Banzai
If I read it right; 1 hour of credit, but not on top of guarantee. So really, pretty much nothing unless you fly guarantee. But if you don't get called on short call, what are the odds that you'll fly the guarantee or above. This little item isn't even worth the ink to print it, if I read it right. I hope they didn't spend a lot of time hashing that one out.
07-22-2016, 04:36 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,909
Originally Posted by Scoop
Underwhelming for sure but it appears to be a lot better than TA-1
The 1 hour credit for SC seems like this deals version of the 5 cent per diem raise. 1 hour credit for a SC - wow I guest I will start bidding reserve ASAP!
Scoop
The 1 hour credit for SC seems like this deals version of the 5 cent per diem raise. 1 hour credit for a SC - wow I guest I will start bidding reserve ASAP!
Scoop
07-22-2016, 06:03 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
VB wasn't on my wish list or show up anywhere in the polling I participated in. My initial thought is this is a huge give. Sick leave is worse (removal of voluntary verification).
Unless my pay and vacation are both about to be doubled, this won't be something I vote yes for. I'll wait.
My reps have been given this feedback.
Unless my pay and vacation are both about to be doubled, this won't be something I vote yes for. I'll wait.
My reps have been given this feedback.
07-22-2016, 06:17 AM
#106
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Raging white
VB wasn't on my wish list or show up anywhere in the polling I participated in. My initial thought is this is a huge give. Sick leave is worse (removal of voluntary verification).
Unless my pay and vacation are both about to be doubled, this won't be something I vote yes for. I'll wait.
My reps have been given this feedback.
Unless my pay and vacation are both about to be doubled, this won't be something I vote yes for. I'll wait.
My reps have been given this feedback.
I've given input to my reps on the same issues.
Apparently, the Notepad isn't completely transparent since they didn't mention the stuff that was already agreed to that they now have to go back and change.
If this is how the negotiators work, then they all need to go fly the line. Sooner rather than later.
07-22-2016, 06:39 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
The guys who are saying "that's not so bad" are missing the point. Even if nothing changes, in this environment, that's unacceptable. But stuff has changed. Overwhelmingly for the worst. If we can't make improvements now, we never will.
Guys with decades left need to consider how this contract will set a precedent for the rest of your careers.
UPS pilots had the guts to see it through and were rewarded. Will we have the resolve to take the time and make the necessary changes (adios to at least 3 of the negotiators) to knock it out if the park? What we se here is a swinging bunt...out at first.
Guys with decades left need to consider how this contract will set a precedent for the rest of your careers.
UPS pilots had the guts to see it through and were rewarded. Will we have the resolve to take the time and make the necessary changes (adios to at least 3 of the negotiators) to knock it out if the park? What we se here is a swinging bunt...out at first.
Also, UPS pilots got a great TA--no disagreement. But it is also four years after the amendable date, without a full retro--that would be nearly impossible after being four years delayed. If I were a UPS pilot, I would certainly vote "Yes"...and yet, if the exact same value were part of a TA ON the amendable date (vs four years late) it would not be some spectacular "hey look at this!" TA. It would have been a modest, gain upon gain over four years type of agreement. It would probably have generated a lot of heated "I'm voting NO!" posts.
07-22-2016, 07:16 AM
#108
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
If I had a dollar for every post which claimed that "this agreement will define our careers for decades to come" I would have a whole lot of dollars. And yet it wouldn't be true.
Also, UPS pilots got a great TA--no disagreement. But it is also four years after the amendable date, without a full retro--that would be nearly impossible after being four years delayed. If I were a UPS pilot, I would certainly vote "Yes"...and yet, if the exact same value were part of a TA ON the amendable date (vs four years late) it would not be some spectacular "hey look at this!" TA. It would have been a modest, gain upon gain over four years type of agreement. It would probably have generated a lot of heated "I'm voting NO!" posts.
Also, UPS pilots got a great TA--no disagreement. But it is also four years after the amendable date, without a full retro--that would be nearly impossible after being four years delayed. If I were a UPS pilot, I would certainly vote "Yes"...and yet, if the exact same value were part of a TA ON the amendable date (vs four years late) it would not be some spectacular "hey look at this!" TA. It would have been a modest, gain upon gain over four years type of agreement. It would probably have generated a lot of heated "I'm voting NO!" posts.
Scoop
You are playing Monday morning QB here.
07-22-2016, 07:24 AM
#109
Sick of whiners
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: 767 VEOP
Posts: 507
Originally Posted by Herkflyr
...and yet, if the exact same value were part of a TA ON the amendable date (vs four years late) it would not be some spectacular "hey look at this!" TA. It would have been a modest, gain upon gain over four years type of agreement. It would probably have generated a lot of heated "I'm voting NO!" posts.
I think I see what you are saying. Now, I fully understand that UPS was starting from a higher $$$/hr than us, but in regressing their TA gains to account for the many years past the amendable date, their TA is very close to-
3/3/3/3/3/3/3/3/
where the BOLD is the immediate TA 14% raise on signing in Sept run backwards 4 yrs.
.
I still like their TA a lot though.
.
07-22-2016, 07:45 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by Scoop
You are missing the point. The reason it did take 4 years was the fact that the original TA obviously did not contain "the exact same value."
Scoop
You are playing Monday morning QB here.
Scoop
You are playing Monday morning QB here.
All I'm saying is that even great agreements, if years late, are mathematically not necessarily better than more modest agreements arrived at earlier in the process.
And yes I also acknowledge "time value of concessions" as part of the discussion.
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