I posted this in response to Jerry, but Jerry doesn't debate rationally. He drops bombs, posts leaks, and retreats. Since I'm interested in your ideas, I'll start a new thread.

What we're doing is easy. We continuously write what we gave up, and what we deserve. And make demands. Unfortunately, we (and certain members of the MEC) never follow that up with a plan to get those things.

The first plan was to vote no. Jerry told us that would be all it would take, and we'd have a deal in 48 hours. He was wrong, but that's ok. He wasn't elected to lead us. Unfortunately, Tom Brielmann wrote to his pilots much the same thing. He was wrong, and that's not ok. (He later wrote that he was "disappointed but not surprised" that it was taking so long. Which is it, Tom? You can't be so drastically wrong in a prediction to the pilots and then act like you expected it.)

So now that we are negotiating under the auspices of the NMB (the same NMB that Tom called a "bogeyman" - they seem pretty real now), what is the strategy to get your 20% of stock (and my pony)? What is Tom's? Just say "no" to everything until we get released?

I'm not sure if you know how the NMB works (I'm certain Brielmann doesn't), but they will never release us if we do that. Why would they possibly reward us?

Tom Brielmann wrote that entering mediation would be a failure of ALPA leadership. On that, we agree. But we are here now.

We are not going to get squat if we just show up and make demands. Even if the negotiating committee all wear their orange lanyards!

So don't tell me that I'm a Moakie and how tough you are, and don't tell me what we lost or what we deserve. I'll stipulate both. And I know, we can live forever under C12. Until we can't. Every day inflation is giving us a paycut. Eventually we will have to come to a deal. Tell me how we're going to get it, and how long it will take.

You know, the things the MEC should be telling us.

the longer management insists on outrageous and economically unnecessary and unneeded concessions, the less likely it is this pilot group will alter the present 'strategy'.

I think your time would be better spent on the 'Ask Ed Anything' forum....inquiring about the strategic inconsistency of managements table positions and their stated desire to achieve an industry leading contract for the delta pilots.

The power to achieve their desired objective of an 'industry leading' deal.....is entirely in the hands of management.

I don't want my MEC telling us how long this will take. They don't know. Management doesn't know. No one knows, and the more you demand that someone tell you something that is unknown, the more obvious your disconnect with reality becomes. Your demands mirror those from my toddler.

You say eventually we will come to a deal. Sounds good to me. When the company can arrive at an offer that I find more palatable than C2012, I'll let my reps know that I'll take it. Until then, our position only grows in strength. Retirements loom, Delta Connection falters, and our competitors become more efficient and threatening. There is more than an orange crush leaning on the company...there are business realities leveraging our position more than theirs.

Chillax, smoke a Lucky, grow up, whatever...your urgency plays into the company's hands. Patience is the key to success right now.

That toddler thing is ironic. It's exactly how I view the "no concession" crowd. Like a toddler demanding more ice cream; it's just not going to happen.

As far as our leverage growing, now you're at least touching on a strategy. Kudos. Unfortunately, none of those things represent leverage if we continue to insist on not trading them.

If true, that's scary. And an abject failure on our part.

There are concessions...then there's capitulation.

Very profound. Thanks for the illuminating contribution.

You're welcome...I'm hoping I can reach your level of zen someday soon!

Yet we have guys are white slipping like crazy today.

nice same day WS in ATL 2:01 from WS to report