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Pre 9/11 payscales

Old 02-27-2007, 12:54 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by CE750 View Post
I've read you on here for years now and have always agreed for the most part with you, but this I have to disagree with.

"$300 bills" an hour doesn't cover (and please read this carefully):


When you see a pilot going through the same security you go through,
he's not being paid.

When you see a pilot walking in the terminal, he's not being paid.

When you see a pilot at the gate pulling up paper work, planning the
flight, and conferring with the agent, he's not being paid.

When you see a pilot walking around the aircraft doing a preflight
inspection, he's not being paid.

When you board the aircraft and look in the cockpit and see the pilots
setting up the aircraft, they're not getting paid.

When you land safely at your destination and walk off the aircraft and
see the pilots shutting down the aircraft, they're not being paid.

When you see a pilot waiting for a ride to a hotel for the night, he's
not being paid.

The only time the pilot of your aircraft is getting paid is when you
DON"T see him... when he's locked behind the cockpit door as you push back from the gate. Every thing else he does until this point is for free. For no wages. Nothing!

The average airline pilot is at work for 12- 14 hours per day, yet gets
paid for less than 6 - 7 hours.

The average airline pilot is away from home, at work, for 70+ hours a
week, yet gets paid for only 15 to 18 hours per weeks work.

Most pilots schedules have them working 15 days or more a month... that
means they are not at home half the month.

Holidays, weekends, birthdays, anniversaries, summer vacations.... not
at home.

A majority of pilots have 4 year college degrees, or more. Then they
begin training as pilots.

A large majority of Pilots have spent 8 years or more flying in the military, risking their lives and protecting your freedom for wages most of you wouldn't accept in the civilian world.

Civilian trained pilots have spent $50,000 or more to acquire the training that qualifies them for a Regional Airline job, which pays a wage less than the poverty level in most western countries.

Most pilots do not attain the required experience level to be hired by a major airline until they are well passed the age of 30. The average age
of a new hire airline pilot is 32.

Airline pilots are required to retire at the age of 60. This gives most of them less than 28 years to maximize their income and fund their pensions, hoping that greedy airline execs won't steal it.

Airline pilots are subject to random drug and alcohol testing, any time
they are at work. Fail it and they lose their job.

Airline pilots are required to undergo rigorous re-training and certification every 6 to 9 months, at which time they could fail and lose their jobs, licenses and livelihood.

Airline pilots are required to submit to random government "Line checks"
during which their license could be revoked and livelihood destroyed.

Airline pilots are exposed to radiation levels far exceeding the normal
safe radiation limits mandated by the FDA.

Airline pilots are required to submit to a government medical
examination every 6 months (Captains) and 12 months as First Officers. Year after year. Fail that, and their career is over.

How many of you go to work where people try to kill you? How many of
you have had your office turned into a cruise missile? How many of you work behind a bullet proof door?

How many of you are responsible for the lives of 200- 300 people, with
any small mistake in your performance resulting in the death of your
customers (and yourselves), and the financial destruction of your company?

How many of your jobs require you to fight your way through thunderstorms, rain, snow, ice and turbulence, day and night, year after year? No mistakes allowed? The excuse " I had a bad day at work" never accepted?

Many pilots volunteer (on their own time and own dime) to be trained as
Federal Flight Deck Officers, and carry weapons to defend their aircraft,
crew and passengers. They maintain their proficiency and qualifications
twice a year on their own time and money.

How many of you go to work where you are searched, patted down and your personal items scrutinized by strangers, even though you can kill
everyone in your place of work with your two bare hands?

Airline pilot pay scales and hours worked are usually posted by absurdly
overcompensated Airline Exec's who are waging a PR campaign against
their Pilot Unions and trying to justify their own greedy bonus's and
draconian wage and pension cuts. Cheap ass airline passengers just love this **** since they don't care if their airplane is flown by the lowest
denominator, as long as they can fly for next to nothing. Course if they don't get to their destination, their next of kin can sue....

Well said, CE750.

I think EVERY pilot should copy this and keep it in their flight bag.

This "aviator" thing might seem like a cool profession, but when it comes down to it, we are way under paid. Those pre 9/11 rates were reasonable in my opinion. Because in the long run if your wife and kids hate you because you missed birthdays, Christmas, Thanksgiving, school plays, ect. and then you die 2 years after your last Narita flight, $185 an hour isn't really worth it. Especially after you spend 30 years of you and your family's life working for a company. Is it?

It's about time we all demand a new contract now.
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Old 02-27-2007, 04:43 AM
  #32  
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I agree... I think we all should spread this text around the forums, and email lists.. Sometimes even we forget how much work we do to get to where we are in this profession.
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Old 02-27-2007, 06:49 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by CE750 View Post
true, but not many doctors earn less than $150,000 year either.. They actually earn an average or 2 x what the average pilot earns from all I've seen.
Doctors deserve to be paid way more then pilots. I think doctors earn every cent of their big checks.
Pilots complain about puting in the time as instructors and regionals to get to the majors.
Guess what.... doctors put in like 8 years of education to get where they are(med school fees at UCLA were over $20,000 a year alone + regular tuition). Not to mention these med students have no life, they spend all their time burried in the books. Then when they get out sure they get nice money, but with that comes with an insane amount of work.
Here in Canada doctors may MAX out at $150,000.... it is a crime to see doctors getting paid less then so many other people here(ie dentists and vets for example make more then doctors here)
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:29 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Linebacker35 View Post
Doctors deserve to be paid way more then pilots. I think doctors earn every cent of their big checks.
Pilots complain about puting in the time as instructors and regionals to get to the majors.
Guess what.... doctors put in like 8 years of education to get where they are(med school fees at UCLA were over $20,000 a year alone + regular tuition). Not to mention these med students have no life, they spend all their time burried in the books. Then when they get out sure they get nice money, but with that comes with an insane amount of work.
Here in Canada doctors may MAX out at $150,000.... it is a crime to see doctors getting paid less then so many other people here(ie dentists and vets for example make more then doctors here)
I agree with you that doctors deserve to be well compensated for thier services. That doesn't change the fact that after graduating dean's list, being at a regional until I'm chief pilot, then getting on with the fifth largest airline I'm only making $70,000 a yr. While my friend's in fields that have a fraction of the required education and responsibility make more and have more time off.
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HPilot View Post
I agree with you that doctors deserve to be well compensated for thier services. That doesn't change the fact that after graduating dean's list, being at a regional until I'm chief pilot, then getting on with the fifth largest airline I'm only making $70,000 a yr. While my friend's in fields that have a fraction of the required education and responsibility make more and have more time off.
I also agree with you that pilots are underpaid. It doesnt make sense that a high school drop out can make more on the oil rigs here than a A320 captain does.
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Old 02-27-2007, 08:41 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CE750 View Post
true, but not many doctors earn less than $150,000 year either.. They actually earn an average or 2 x what the average pilot earns from all I've seen.
I don't believe this. How many times do we read articles on the "Average pilot pay" and it be completely crazy? Just do a google search and look at all the crazy things you'll find. We always complain about how that makes the public get the wrong idea. Is it possible we have the wrong opinions on this? Does this include being an intern or all the other steps at hospitals ect for many years prior to earning anything?
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:56 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck View Post
I don't believe this. How many times do we read articles on the "Average pilot pay" and it be completely crazy? Just do a google search and look at all the crazy things you'll find. We always complain about how that makes the public get the wrong idea. Is it possible we have the wrong opinions on this? Does this include being an intern or all the other steps at hospitals ect for many years prior to earning anything?
I know this much, my 35 year old friend and his class mates from med school are all in the mid to high 6 figures.. and I and my pilot class mates are either furloughed, paid under $100K (some cases well under), or out of work..

We have to retire at 60 (maybe 65 one day), so that even weighs more on our income as we need to earn more earlier.. Face it, we're not getting what we deserve.
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Old 02-27-2007, 01:36 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Linebacker35 View Post
Doctors deserve to be paid way more then pilots. I think doctors earn every cent of their big checks.
Pilots complain about puting in the time as instructors and regionals to get to the majors.
Guess what.... doctors put in like 8 years of education to get where they are(med school fees at UCLA were over $20,000 a year alone + regular tuition). Not to mention these med students have no life, they spend all their time burried in the books. Then when they get out sure they get nice money, but with that comes with an insane amount of work.
Here in Canada doctors may MAX out at $150,000.... it is a crime to see doctors getting paid less then so many other people here(ie dentists and vets for example make more then doctors here)
When a doctor makes a mistake, one person dies and the doctor may get sued.

When a pilot makes a mistake, he dies, his copilot dies, the flt attendants die, the passengers die; then the widows sue the pilot's company.

Airline piloting is a profession, just like medicine. Many of us could have gone in to Medicine, Lawyer'ing, etc. We chose a equally difficult path.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by whitt767 View Post
When a doctor makes a mistake, one person dies and the doctor may get sued.

When a pilot makes a mistake, he dies, his copilot dies, the flt attendants die, the passengers die; then the widows sue the pilot's company.

Airline piloting is a profession, just like medicine. Many of us could have gone in to Medicine, Lawyer'ing, etc. We chose a equally difficult path.
Yup youre right, being a pilot is the same as being a doctor. Doing spinal, heart, brain surguries or having a multiple gunshot wound victim rushed into ER is basicaly the same as landing a plane

Get real.
According to your reasoning a bus driver should make just as much as a doctor

Last edited by Linebacker35; 02-27-2007 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-27-2007, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Linebacker35 View Post
Yup youre right, being a pilot is the same as being a doctor. Doing spinal, heart, brain surguries or having a multiple gunshot wound victim rushed into ER is basicaly the same as landing a plane

Get real.
According to your reasoning a bus driver should make just as much as a doctor
Nope, Never said pilots and doctors are the same. Read the post again. You are injecting your own judgements. Just made a comment about the difference in responsibilies. I am real. I expect to get paid what the market will pay me. I'm sorry the poor doctors in Canada are underpaid. That's what you get with socialized medicine.

:roll eyes: pluuuueeeeez!
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