SkyWest and Raises
08-21-2018, 10:23 AM
#32
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,211
Originally Posted by Check Complete
To a degree I see what you're saying and getting "some" to come in the door could be swayed by a scholarship or paying for their training. But in this day I see many of the right age to start an aviation career just don't for many reasons. The allure has dramatically soured and the way I saw aviation and maybe your's as well just isn't there like it used to be. Those that have traveled get turned off by the security garbage and all the crowds. You have to admit being a pilot today is nothing like was 20 years ago, and thanks to management the prestige has evaporated to almost nothing. 911 didn't help either. Not everyone coming in door have loans or are fresh from a training school. The hiring bonuses at the other regionals is too attractive.
If you move the career-interest needle in the general population just a hair, that will generate a number of additional pilots which is minuscule compared to the job market in general, but significant relative to the available pilot jobs. There are definitely more than a few kids out there who are more concerned with paying for school/training than they are with regional new hire bonuses. If I were in their shoes I'd be concerned mostly with cost of school and what I could ultimately make as a legacy CA.
Originally Posted by Check Complete
And to what's coming in the door today shows what SkyWest is against. While there are some very apt pilots coming in the door there are also quite a number that as little as 3 years ago would have never been remotely considered. I have some good friends on the hiring committee that tell me stories of applicants that are almost unbelievable, but you can't make some of this stuff up, and they're hired. We are hiring those that got fired at other regionals.
One of the reasons I left was actually that I got tired of endless unpaid IOE, and also out of a very real concern that the new hires of today would be the CA's of tomorrow, and might create safety issues which could endanger the company's feed contracts. No regional which has had a fatal crash in recent memory still exists.
08-21-2018, 11:35 AM
#34
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by rickair7777
One of the reasons I left was actually that I got tired of endless unpaid IOE, and also out of a very real concern that the new hires of today would be the CA's of tomorrow, and might create safety issues which could endanger the company's feed contracts. No regional which has had a fatal crash in recent memory still exists.
Risk management has a lot of factors. One is exposure, one is quality, and one is how you can explain the mishap.
OO has the highest exposure, just because they are the biggest. If they let the quality of the new hires go down , just to put butts in seats, that increases their risk even further. And when the inevitable happens, even if it's not the aircrew or the company's fault, the narrative becomes that the company has been paying subpar wages forever, so of course they were primed for a mishap. The fact that some employees that recently left after five years of salary less than their peers will have less than complimentary things to say - and more than a few I-told-you-so's - will complete the perfect storm.
Not sure the stockholders understand the risk.
08-21-2018, 12:10 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by Excargodog
THIS^'^^
Risk management has a lot of factors. One is exposure, one is quality, and one is how you can explain the mishap.
OO has the highest exposure, just because they are the biggest. If they let the quality of the new hires go down , just to put butts in seats, that increases their risk even further. And when the inevitable happens, even if it's not the aircrew or the company's fault, the narrative becomes that the company has been paying subpar wages forever, so of course they were primed for a mishap. The fact that some employees that recently left after five years of salary less than their peers will have less than complimentary things to say - and more than a few I-told-you-so's - will complete the perfect storm.
Not sure the stockholders understand the risk.
Risk management has a lot of factors. One is exposure, one is quality, and one is how you can explain the mishap.
OO has the highest exposure, just because they are the biggest. If they let the quality of the new hires go down , just to put butts in seats, that increases their risk even further. And when the inevitable happens, even if it's not the aircrew or the company's fault, the narrative becomes that the company has been paying subpar wages forever, so of course they were primed for a mishap. The fact that some employees that recently left after five years of salary less than their peers will have less than complimentary things to say - and more than a few I-told-you-so's - will complete the perfect storm.
Not sure the stockholders understand the risk.
08-21-2018, 12:56 PM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by amcnd
I would disagree. They do hire everyone. But the training failures have gone up.. the training department like other regionals are “holding the line”...
The wonder years of SkyWest having the very best training programs is long gone.
Long gone!
08-21-2018, 01:34 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by Check Complete
Uh, no. The ground schools are becoming a more self taught atmosphere via CBTs. You can’t argue our CBTs range between terrible to marginal. The ground school instructors, some have as little as 4 months time on line, all FOs. The upgrade ground school consists of 4 days after you finish over 60 CBTs, upgrade times are as little as 6 months. The “tough” sim check airman are getting scheduled to do more training than checking per one of the chief instructors. Students doing IOE are taking more and more time to get up to par. They finally pass a check ride only to go back and do more IOE because some line pilots won’t put up with garbage! A flight landed in DSM a few months ago and the CA refused to take off with the FO saying it was worse than being single pilot.
The wonder years of SkyWest having the very best training programs is long gone.
Long gone!
The wonder years of SkyWest having the very best training programs is long gone.
Long gone!
Hasn’t. And as far as the “tuff” ones. The names you hear are actually no the ones that have the highest failure rates!!! F
08-21-2018, 01:42 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: Downward Dog
Posts: 1,877
I heard the training failures have gone down this year relative to last year because they upped the number of sims they would allow before a). Sign off or b). termination.
There was an FO in a crew room recently that was loudly complaining how everything about skywest sucks and how much they have lied to him. He's been off OE for a couple of months and was recently picked up by the training department in denver to teach. Just great.
Think of the amount of damage a guy like this can do to morale while he pads his resume.
It only takes a few bad apples.
...but they've made the decision to pay less rather than more for quality ground school instructors.
There was an FO in a crew room recently that was loudly complaining how everything about skywest sucks and how much they have lied to him. He's been off OE for a couple of months and was recently picked up by the training department in denver to teach. Just great.
Think of the amount of damage a guy like this can do to morale while he pads his resume.
It only takes a few bad apples.
...but they've made the decision to pay less rather than more for quality ground school instructors.
08-21-2018, 02:17 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: e145 fo
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by amcnd
Mesa 4+ years, Frontier 3+ years. Ect.. not uncommon....
08-21-2018, 02:31 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,203
Originally Posted by WesternSkies
I heard the training failures have gone down this year relative to last year because they upped the number of sims they would allow before a). Sign off or b). termination.
There was an FO in a crew room recently that was loudly complaining how everything about skywest sucks and how much they have lied to him. He's been off OE for a couple of months and was recently picked up by the training department in denver to teach. Just great.
Think of the amount of damage a guy like this can do to morale while he pads his resume.
It only takes a few bad apples.
...but they've made the decision to pay less rather than more for quality ground school instructors.
There was an FO in a crew room recently that was loudly complaining how everything about skywest sucks and how much they have lied to him. He's been off OE for a couple of months and was recently picked up by the training department in denver to teach. Just great.
Think of the amount of damage a guy like this can do to morale while he pads his resume.
It only takes a few bad apples.
...but they've made the decision to pay less rather than more for quality ground school instructors.
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