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Training issues at SKW

Old 04-22-2019, 06:03 AM
  #211  
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Sorry, I am not trying to make this about the union debate. That isn't at all what I was asking about.

Does anyone have a copy of the pilot initial new hire packet? Whatever information they send to you a few weeks before training that includes the dress code and the stuff you'll be tested on the first day?
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:28 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by gojo View Post
If they get the union drive spooled up they’ll probably all get another good raise
A raise is important however working in an environment that is political and incites fear is substandard. I quote the OP,
Originally Posted by Aviator2019 View Post

I feel very strongly after going through the SKW groundschool that the training department is run on fear.
Unions are not perfect but when management ultimately works for Wall Street, unions are crucial in protecting the employee from untethered unilateral policies and decision making. I know SkyWest pilots have had union drives in the past and the majority of pilots look at SkyWest as a stepping stone and not a career.

I realize there are other posters and trolls that want me to shutup and "enjoy retirement" but I feel its important your pilot group re-consider unionizing and put a stop to the "fear" and other abuses vocalized by the pilot group.

Last edited by 155mm; 04-22-2019 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:12 AM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by 155mm View Post
A raise is important however working in an environment that is political and incites fear is substandard. I quote the OP,

Unions are not perfect but when management ultimately works for Wall Street, unions are crucial in protecting the employee from untethered unilateral policies and decision making. I know SkyWest pilots have had union drives in the past and the majority of pilots look at SkyWest as a stepping stone and not a career.

I realize there are other posters and trolls that want me to shutup and "enjoy retirement" but I feel its important your pilot group re-consider unionizing and put a stop to the "fear" and other abuses vocalized by the pilot group.
I did four full training events at OO, including one back in the day before "sensitivity to the feelings of others" was really a thing. There was no fear culture.

Not everyone passes 121 training, nor should they. If you happened to be in that small fraction of folks who just can't hack it (for whatever reason, despite copious remedial efforts), yes you will probably be fearful. Can't make the world perfect for everyone.

Like everywhere else, they had some hard-arse sim guys back in the day but they flushed almost all of them over a decade ago, specifically because they didn't want a toxic training culture. The few hard ones who survived had to tone it down big time. One laid low for years, thought he could get back to his old ways, and got sent right back to the line just a couple years ago.

No regional can afford a reputation for hard training and OO figured that out a very long time ago.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:17 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by OOnewb View Post
Sorry, I am not trying to make this about the union debate. That isn't at all what I was asking about.

Does anyone have a copy of the pilot initial new hire packet? Whatever information they send to you a few weeks before training that includes the dress code and the stuff you'll be tested on the first day?
That technically contains SSI, and someone could get in very big trouble for handing it out on the internet. If you really can't wait until they send it to you, try to find someone you know at OO to help you with that.
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Old 04-22-2019, 08:56 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
That technically contains SSI, and someone could get in very big trouble for handing it out on the internet. If you really can't wait until they send it to you, try to find someone you know at OO to help you with that.
Yea, plus if you have access to SWOL you can go to the FO page and find the FO Manuals and in the my task section you can find the dress code for indoc and ground.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:06 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I did four full training events at OO, including one back in the day before "sensitivity to the feelings of others" was really a thing. There was no fear culture.

Not everyone passes 121 training, nor should they. If you happened to be in that small fraction of folks who just can't hack it (for whatever reason, despite copious remedial efforts), yes you will probably be fearful. Can't make the world perfect for everyone.

Like everywhere else, they had some hard-arse sim guys back in the day but they flushed almost all of them over a decade ago, specifically because they didn't want a toxic training culture. The few hard ones who survived had to tone it down big time. One laid low for years, thought he could get back to his old ways, and got sent right back to the line just a couple years ago.

No regional can afford a reputation for hard training and OO figured that out a very long time ago.
More importantly, help us understand why a group of 4621 pilots won't unionize?
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:39 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
The union will help with that, but it will work a lot better at mainline. I've tried it all.

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the “better than nothing.”
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:15 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I did four full training events at OO, including one back in the day before "sensitivity to the feelings of others" was really a thing. There was no fear culture.

Not everyone passes 121 training, nor should they. If you happened to be in that small fraction of folks who just can't hack it (for whatever reason, despite copious remedial efforts), yes you will probably be fearful. Can't make the world perfect for everyone.

Like everywhere else, they had some hard-arse sim guys back in the day but they flushed almost all of them over a decade ago, specifically because they didn't want a toxic training culture. The few hard ones who survived had to tone it down big time. One laid low for years, thought he could get back to his old ways, and got sent right back to the line just a couple years ago.

No regional can afford a reputation for hard training and OO figured that out a very long time ago.
Who was it? ST?
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:18 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by 155mm View Post
More importantly, help us understand why a group of 4621 pilots won't unionize?
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

The union membership rate--the percent of wage and salary workers who were
members of unions--was 10.5 percent in 2018, down by 0.2 percentage point
from 2017, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number
of wage and salary workers belonging to unions, at 14.7 million in 2018,
was little changed from 2017. In 1983, the first year for which comparable
union data are available, the union membership rate was 20.1 percent and
there were 17.7 million union workers
MOST Americans aren’t union members. Given that airline pilot unions seem even more hamstrung in their actions by the RLA than the unions of other industries, and the history of incestuous relationships (MEC to management pilot, etc.), the (hoped for) short time people want to spend in the regionals before moving on, and the lack of support (even moral support) the regional unions get from the unions at the majors, the more reasonable question might be why so many of the other regionals ARE unionized.
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Old 04-22-2019, 12:27 PM
  #220  
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Default Training issues at SKW

Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:







MOST Americans aren’t union members. Given that airline pilot unions seem even more hamstrung in their actions by the RLA than the unions of other industries, and the history of incestuous relationships (MEC to management pilot, etc.), the (hoped for) short time people want to spend in the regionals before moving on, and the lack of support (even moral support) the regional unions get from the unions at the majors, the more reasonable question might be why so many of the other regionals ARE unionized.

Because it’s better than no union at all despite the negatives. Any organization made up humans will have negatives, that applies to management as well. And they have enforceable contracts AND an association to advocate for them. Plus, being union pilot means more than having an enforceable contract.

PS Most Americans aren’t airline pilots. But most American airline pilots are union.
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