TheOtherGuy25

Absolutely correct, ALPA has done good things no question. It's just funny to me that anytime SkyWest makes money, gets new contracts, new airplanes or anything like that everyone with an axe to grind comes out with the good ol' "OO PiLoTs ArE To BlAmE!" line.

It's almost as if they now know that all us pilots drop everything, put on our disguises and meet up once a week in the secret underground St. George lair to plot the downfall of every other regional in the country so we can steal flying and avoid joining ALPA...
Cause you know, the pilots are obviously to blame for every other regionals woes.

Meow1215

Theres that koolaid that ****es the union carriers off, right there.

As a union pilot I can tell you that OO does in fact benefit from union carrier gains. As a matter of fact, a strong argument can be made that threat of OO pilots unionizing is probably more effective than having a union at OO. KCM is paid for by A4A, the origin was ALPA. Part 117, the 1,500 hour rule, the list goes on. Thats not even the main issue.

OO benefits from union carrier setting the baseline, they negotiate, fight, do the work - then OO Mgmt gives SAPA a good enough carrot keep you guys from organizing. So OO pilots continue to reap the benefits of the rest of industry without putting any of the work. The best part is that several of your pilots know it, wouldn’t mind organizing, but because they won’t be there in 5-10 years why should they do any work?

But they happily wear that ALPA pin at DAL and UAL.

RJSCUM

We aren’t “not doing any work” You try convincing 4000+ pilots to just hear ALPA out when the QOL is good. On top of that management is pretty good at union busting by saying “look at unions they’re all just a bunch of thugs” then people come to places like here, read all the vitriol you guys have to say and they think “Yeah, management is right . Unions are stupid thugs, we don’t need that here”. Then those of us who want to organize have to constantly fight that BS here and on FB. If anyone really cares about OO organizing, please help me out and S 👏 T 👏 F 👏 U unless you have something productive or constructive to say.

brockenspectre

Did you really use the term boomer?

RudderJockey

That's diametrically in opposition to the fundamental concept of "unionism" - everyone working together and contributing equally to the cause. It's not surprising a SkyWest pilot fundamentally doesn't get it.

Yes. The public ponies up every day in fare prices and fees that support pilot salaries among other things, which in turn support union dues.

Does SAPA contribute to and support the SMEs and lobbyists sent to congress and the FAA to lobby for the initiatives that benefit them?
Did SAPA or SKW contribute anything when ALPA spent their time and dues dollars to initially help design the KCM program and get it off the ground?
How much input did SAPA have and how much did they contribute to crafting and lobbying congress/FAA for 117 rest rules?
What initiatives and causes are SAPA and SkyWest pilots currently contributing towards and advocating for in front of regulators and congress?
How involved is SAPA in crafting and advocating for career progression pathway programs that ALPA has been such an integral part of? You think it was a coincidence United's largest Express carrier's pilots where left out of the Aviate program?

The list goes on....HIMS, ASAP, CIRP, AQP, FFDO.
The foundation for nearly every program and benefit SKW pilots enjoy came from the effort and groundwork laid by pilot labor unions. It's time for the SKW pilot group to admit that. I don't agree with bashing SKW pilots for being non-union, that's certainly their choice to make. But don't delude yourselves into thinking your not free-riding off of the hard work of real union pilot groups doing the heavy lifting.

savedbythevnav

Yes, SkyWest’s inability to lead the pack in pay, work rules and lobbying initiatives are to blame. Don’t you fools see we are the reason ALPA carrier PSA sold everyone out several years ago?

Open your eyes!

amcnd

If SkyWest is as bad as This forum makes it out to be. Why are 5500 pilots there?. Why did they grow so big, and able to attract so many pilots? Why do they lead the industry in technology. (Only airline to be approved for a Full paperless MX program, the benchmark For FAA AQP program.)..sure they have piggy backed some alpa or swapa or apa, teamsters programs....In the end SkyWest doesn’t have there faults, and fails. But to each there own what are you willing to live with? A cross country commute to a ALPA airline for “vacation touch days”? . And 5500 pilots weren't leaving in drones to other regionals. When they had a chance...

HulkaBurger

SkyWest is the "benchmark" for AQP? Um. That would be Alaska. A couple of decades ago.

amcnd

New AQP airlines uses the OO program To shadow/observe while getting AQP Up
and running.. yes OO didn’t start AQP. Thats not what i said....

Flymeaway

I really have no problem with ALPA, and I signed up during their most recent drive, though it never came to a vote. It's true that ALPA has been an important part of a lot of positive changes in the industry and I can understand why a member would be proud of those accomplishments. However, I don't think that your arguments hold much water in insisting on another pilot group joining your union or looking down on groups who choose other unions or not to unionize.

Claiming the flying public helps pay for part 117 or improved training through AQP or anything else that ALPA does is like me claiming that I helped pay to support shipyard safety improvements because I took a cruise to Alaska, paying a fare that was set by market competition. Yes, my ticket money went to a cruise line, who then bought a cruise ship from the shipyard, who then paid people to build the ship, who paid union dues, who paid lobbyists to lobby congress for safety improvements. But I didn't contribute 2% of my salary towards those efforts and to equate me to them or even to compare us is disingenuous.

Unionization (employee groups collectively bargaining with management) and lobbying Congress are two separate things, even though ALPA and many unions are involved in both. Unlike unionization, lobbying Congress doesn't work by everyone pitching in.

I'm not a member of the NRA, but I can still buy a firearm. And I'd be pretty put out if someone demanded that I join the NRA just because I owned one.
I don't go around insisting that everyone contribute to President Trump's reelection campaign or the RNC if they received a tax cut.
Nor did I insist they contribute to President Obama's reelection campaign or DNC if they benefited from Obamacare.
If I were a woman, I could do as I wished with my own body before a certain point in pregnancy even if I never contributed to Planned Parenthood.
I can prevent my daughters from legally killing my grandchildren after that certain point in pregancy even if I never donated to the National Right to Life Committee, and never do in the future.

Am I "free-riding" off of all the hard work of the NRA, and President Trump's and President Obama's staffs and contributors, and all of the other lobbying groups out there from which I might benefit? You could make the argument, sure. We are all "free-riding" off of other peoples' hard work every day. That doesn't mean we're obliged to financially contribute to future lobbying efforts by those organizations, or should be belittled or denigrated because we choose not to. We just shouldn't complain if those future efforts fail after choosing not to contribute. And we can, individually, contribute to lobbying efforts if we so choose.

An earlier poster got it right. There is a significant feeling here that the threat of unionization at OO gives us more negotiating capital with SGU than an actual union would. Therefore, so long as management keeps us in the top 25% or so of our competition in pay, QoL, job security, etc, I find it unlikely we'll ever vote in a union. That doesn't mean that we're anti-union, that we believe other pilot groups with different managements shouldn't have unionized, or that we deride other airlines for their unionization, and for the earlier poster who accused us of doing so, it's simply false.