Skywest ATC Warnings?????
04-25-2007, 08:25 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
A lot of 121 pilots misunderstand the ASAP program. It is not an excuse to just screw up repeatedly. It will have negative effects down the line if you go somewhere else. You will still receive a violation.
04-25-2007, 08:27 AM
#22
La Familia Delta
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
Posts: 2,467
nobody is saying its a pass to fly wrecklessly. if you have to do one of these more than once every 2 years or so, theres a problem.
but remember the old saying. "there are those that have, and those that will."
but remember the old saying. "there are those that have, and those that will."
04-25-2007, 10:20 AM
#23
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by sflpilot
A lot of 121 pilots misunderstand the ASAP program.
04-25-2007, 06:27 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Not true, since the FAA sits on each company's ASAP committee, the governing FSDO can take information back to other companies and installations to help get things changed (thus preventing similar recurrences by other crews at ANY airline or operation). Further more, some ASAP committees are very willing to share deidentified ASAP reports with other ASAP participant operators. (We used to get the occassional UAL ASAP report when it coincided with our operations).
A good example of this was the Korry 2 Arrival (now the Korry 3) into LGA. Several years back the stepdowns on the arrival were changed after several ACA crews missed mandatory altitude restrictions. Each of these crews submitted ASAP reports explaining how the high rate of descent and both maximum and minimum mandatory altitudes for particular fixes (such as cross XYZ between 11,000 and 12000 resulted in irregular descent profiles, that required varying descent angles/rates.
The consequence? The procedure was changed. The same holds true of many other reports that have been submitted. ASAP data is certainly used mostly in-house, however procedures used by everybody are adapted in a much more timely matter through ASAP reporting.
That said, anybody who fills out an ASAP report should also (and is highly encouraged) to fill out a corresponding ASRS report. But if you're only going to fill out one report, from a career standpoint, your're going to be much better off if you fill out the ASAP report.
A good example of this was the Korry 2 Arrival (now the Korry 3) into LGA. Several years back the stepdowns on the arrival were changed after several ACA crews missed mandatory altitude restrictions. Each of these crews submitted ASAP reports explaining how the high rate of descent and both maximum and minimum mandatory altitudes for particular fixes (such as cross XYZ between 11,000 and 12000 resulted in irregular descent profiles, that required varying descent angles/rates.
The consequence? The procedure was changed. The same holds true of many other reports that have been submitted. ASAP data is certainly used mostly in-house, however procedures used by everybody are adapted in a much more timely matter through ASAP reporting.
That said, anybody who fills out an ASAP report should also (and is highly encouraged) to fill out a corresponding ASRS report. But if you're only going to fill out one report, from a career standpoint, your're going to be much better off if you fill out the ASAP report.
Which is why I do not see them. My company does not yet have ASAP as management will not give guarantees that the information will not be used against the pilots. They want us to trust them.
So if your company does NOT have ASAP, you may not get the information from other ASAP programs, I assume?
Again, I would say to fill them both out.
04-25-2007, 07:14 PM
#25
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
Which is why I do not see them. My company does not yet have ASAP as management will not give guarantees that the information will not be used against the pilots. They want us to trust them.
So if your company does NOT have ASAP, you may not get the information from other ASAP programs, I assume?
Again, I would say to fill them both out.
So if your company does NOT have ASAP, you may not get the information from other ASAP programs, I assume?
Again, I would say to fill them both out.
Obviously if you don't have an ASAP program, it's a moot point as to which report you're going to send in...
I know that with our program most pilots definitely filled out an ASAP report any time they thought one might be necessary (I averaged about 1 report per quarter, and not just because of "screwups" or deviations). Some crewmembers filled out reports just about every week.
Pilots were highly encouraged by the union/company to also fill out a NASA ASRS report, but it wasn't mandatory.
04-25-2007, 07:16 PM
#26
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by sflpilot
A lot of 121 pilots misunderstand the ASAP program. It is not an excuse to just screw up repeatedly. It will have negative effects down the line if you go somewhere else. You will still receive a violation.
It's not an excuse to screw up repeatedly. But there's a big difference between a violation and an ASAP action.
04-25-2007, 07:25 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Salmon-37 FO
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
In the P-56 example, you violate P-56 and file an ASRS and you will still get violated but may not lose your tickets for 120 days but you darn sure will get violated and that will show up on your record. Do the same and file an ASAP and the violation goes into a company ASAP file that nobody outside of you, the ASAP company, union and FAA reps will ever see and it will not show up on a PRIA check.
04-25-2007, 08:32 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
Don't forget that if you do something bad enough the FAA can do an emergency suspension without the normal investigation progress. Don't get arrogant boilerup because you will find out the hard way.
04-26-2007, 01:15 AM
#29
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by GravellyPointer
I was never informed by the Domicile manager or the ASAP manager that such a warning notice or letter of correction from the Feds would not be obtainable by a potential employer during a PRIA check. If what you state reguarding the PRIA is true, that's great! And should be stated so clearly in our ASAP booklet.
In the two hours we spent discussing ASAP, He told us specifically that ASAP actions were sealed matters not known outside the company, ALPA and FAA reps on the committee and were not accessible via PRIA. That's not to say you shouldn't self-disclose on an application...
If you talk to him and he tells you differently, I would certainly like to know!
04-26-2007, 10:35 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Cessna 152 Captain
Posts: 695
Skywest Pilots and Arrogance
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Not true, since the FAA sits on each company's ASAP committee, the governing FSDO can take information back to other companies and installations to help get things changed (thus preventing similar recurrences by other crews at ANY airline or operation). Further more, some ASAP committees are very willing to share deidentified ASAP reports with other ASAP participant operators. (We used to get the occassional UAL ASAP report when it coincided with our operations).
A good example of this was the Korry 2 Arrival (now the Korry 3) into LGA. Several years back the stepdowns on the arrival were changed after several ACA crews missed mandatory altitude restrictions. Each of these crews submitted ASAP reports explaining how the high rate of descent and both maximum and minimum mandatory altitudes for particular fixes (such as cross XYZ between 11,000 and 12000 resulted in irregular descent profiles, that required varying descent angles/rates.
The consequence? The procedure was changed. The same holds true of many other reports that have been submitted. ASAP data is certainly used mostly in-house, however procedures used by everybody are adapted in a much more timely matter through ASAP reporting.
That said, anybody who fills out an ASAP report should also (and is highly encouraged) to fill out a corresponding ASRS report. But if you're only going to fill out one report, from a career standpoint, your're going to be much better off if you fill out the ASAP report.
A good example of this was the Korry 2 Arrival (now the Korry 3) into LGA. Several years back the stepdowns on the arrival were changed after several ACA crews missed mandatory altitude restrictions. Each of these crews submitted ASAP reports explaining how the high rate of descent and both maximum and minimum mandatory altitudes for particular fixes (such as cross XYZ between 11,000 and 12000 resulted in irregular descent profiles, that required varying descent angles/rates.
The consequence? The procedure was changed. The same holds true of many other reports that have been submitted. ASAP data is certainly used mostly in-house, however procedures used by everybody are adapted in a much more timely matter through ASAP reporting.
That said, anybody who fills out an ASAP report should also (and is highly encouraged) to fill out a corresponding ASRS report. But if you're only going to fill out one report, from a career standpoint, your're going to be much better off if you fill out the ASAP report.
SOME Skywest Pilots are Gods to Aviation.. who cares they Never Do anything wrong they never Phuck up they are the Best... I am so sick of the pre-madonna attitude of SOME pilots its Sicking
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
