Leroy Smith

Disclaimer: I spent over a dozen years flying the CRJs at your southeastern colony before my improbable ascension to Valhalla, and I definitely have an axe to grind w/ OO management.
Buuuuut, unless there is some part of this that I am not seeing:
To be fired because of this - that is a massive indictment of of OO's safety culture. Has the concept of "just culture" not yet arrived on your shores? Every operator is having UAS issues. I know for a fact that there have been heavies from career destination airlines in similar situations. While those crews surely had some remediation (and probably some really uncomfortable discussions w/ the FAA), but they were never in danger of losing their jobs unless it could be shown that they were willfully non-compliant and/or careless+reckless. Having an Association lawyer there to represent you when sitting at that conference table with the feds and the company is priceless. Even if you are sure you are not at fault....... Ask me how I know.

I'm sorry that things turned out this way for you! Frankly, in a perfect world, you would be an ideal candidate for any major to hire. But, because of the byzantine and opaque way that hiring gets done, you might get screwed instead. The fact that you were concerned about your job in the moment, and that affected your ability to fly the damn plane (even a little) is unconscionable. Shame on anyone and everyone at OO who is responsible for that!

To the original point of the thread:
This applies to everyone, but especially to those who have spent a lot of their time on an aircraft w/ A/T and or VNAV.
De-automate! Do it frequently and often.

In order to have a good grasp on "appropriate level of automation" you need to be proficient at ALL levels of automation. And the lower the level, the more you need to practice. Please, for the sake of aviation in general, turn it all off when able. All jet flying is instrument flying. Instrument scan is perishable. Pitch+Power=Performance and the associated muscle memory is perishable. If you think you might be an automation cripple, its up to you to rehab yourself. Know your personal limitations, then stretch them safely. Pick your moments, let the PM know what you're doing, and take little bites of the elephant. Turn off the A/P and A/T before getting configured or established on final, fly a close visual pattern, turn off the FD and fly some raw data! Turning the A/P off once established on the ILS or engaging it before level-off on departure doesnt really get you much in the way of proficiency.

It will only get worse if and when you get to fly an Airbus or Boeing. You will just be flying fewer legs, and a greater percentage will be on STAR/SIDs w/ vectors to final. Automation use in general is strongly encouraged, even though there will be a lot of lip service to "staying proficient". The older Boeing VNAV / AT combinations (that awesome 1980s tech!) can be especially mercurial. "What it doing?" moments are not uncommon and having some confidence in your ability to do what George doesnt want to in the moment will serve you very well. Cant tell you how many times I've sat in the jumpseat of a legacy and watched a crew fumble with programming, when they could have just used a lower level of automation to accomplish the task. The FAA and industry's focus on profiles and stabilized approaches has done a lot of good, but I believe it has also made a lot of us hesitant to keep proficient and reliant on the higher levels of automation. And it is a Catch-22, if you dont feel proficient you are less likely to de-automate / the less you de-automate, the less you feel (are) proficient. Captains who dont feel proficient discourage their FO's from de-automating, leading to future captains that dont feel proficient, etc, etc.

Again, I'm sorry Jjfreddy, for the personal challenges, and the really unfortunate position you have been put in by SGU. It is all so unnecessary!

There but for the grace of god, go I.
Anything that is not part of my daily routine, is a non-normal. Having been some places, done some stuff, and seen some things over the decades: I am confident in my abilities, but I generally expect to screw the pooch, and that serves me well.

Jjfreddy21

You aren’t missing anything. I’ve been painfully honest about all of this. I was kind of happy when this thread died, but I just wanted to show my appreciation for the sentiments.

Since I last posted on here I’ve met a couple former MEC’s at other regionals and they’ve all said something similar to what you said here. The FAA in my case was actually easier to deal with than OO and SAPA. Even the ASI assigned to me said a union would’ve saved my job, and they recommended remedial training for me as a solution.


I absolutely recommend those currently at OO to get an attorney if you’re ever in a situation that could end in your termination. I was naive in thinking SAPA would help me. They acted like my best friend in conversation, but when it came time during meetings for them to back me up; not a single word was said.
I got a call from the SAPA President who thought they were doing me a favor by saying “get my things in order,” but really he just ended up chastising me for the worst time in my life.

For those outside of SkyWest that might be reading this, and are tired of OO getting benefits from union efforts…stop hiring SAPA Reps at Union Carriers. These people don’t deserve the benefits of having a Union, and just being a part of SAPA in my opinion shows that these people are the ones that would cross picket lines for their own benefit.

KirillTheThrill

You almost put an aircraft in the dirt on a simple go-around. The tapes don’t lie, weather conditions reporting low visibility and ceilings, you never made the potential to go missed part of your brief (REALLY??). You also performed the upset procedure that you put yourself in incorrectly btw.

I doubt anyone would have saved your job with the amount of mistakes made in a single leg. The worst part is this happened right before covid and probably would have put 5,000 pilots on the street, because of YOU.

I can’t believe you have the nerve to come on APC and cry wolf. Seriously wish you all the best at Air Wisconsin, but the fact you’re more worried your job that was lost, and not the passengers you put at risk… WOW. To be frank, if I was still at OO I’d be more upset to hear that you’re still on the pilot list.

Jjfreddy21

The FAA saw the same data. I briefed the missed approach at the gate before we even left, as well as part of the approach brief. I’ve been 100% honest about everything. I f-d up. Yeah I know. I’m not hiding anything.

Air Wisconsin did offer me an interview, but I said no thank you. I’m thankful I get to be home and see my kids grow up. Of course it bugs me that everything I worked so hard for is down the tubes. I’m not doing this for me. I’m doing it for those that might be as naive and full of themselves as I was. Hopefully they can learn something from my mistakes.

KirillTheThrill

You still sound extremely naive, no wonder you can’t get through your recent interviews (checked your post history). You just called SAPA reps (line pilots) SCABS because they were so horrified by your incompetence and lack of airmanship they basically refused to defend you. Think about what that takes, to have line pilots refuse to have your back because your actions scared them so badly.

Jjfreddy21

I’m calling SAPA for what they are. Also, you know nothing about me. Stop making stuff up. Most people on here know you’re nothing but a troll.

KirillTheThrill

You’re upset they wouldn’t defend your incompetence and lack for airmanship. Thanks for your side of the story though, happy to hear SkyWest line pilots expect higher standards from themselves than the FAA. Remember the FAA sets the minimum bar, that doesn’t mean we (all pilots) should have higher expectations/standards for ourselves. Clearly you actually believe you should have kept your job? That’s not something most pilots in the industry would agree with if they had the pleasure of watching your botched procedure(s).

(Also I think you work for AW, but won’t admit it). As your post history seems to indicate that fact.

Jjfreddy21

this is the last thing I’m going to say to you. SkyWest hired me. I had never failed a Checkride, had a clean record, I flew tail wheel and aerobatics. Never had any training issues, violations, or disciplinary action against me. Four check airmen recommended me to be a check airman before I even started upgrade. My career then went to ****. As big of an A-hole as you’ve been I still hope nothing like this happens to you.

If you think you’re immune from this sort of thing happening to you? Than clearly you haven’t been listening to what I’m saying.

KirillTheThrill

Oh trust me, I don’t think I’m immune to your incident, you’re absolutely correct, it could happen to anyone including myself. But for it to happen to myself or anyone else, that would require me/them to “dump” all the actions and callouts they learned and performed proficiently during their training and check ride, which is exactly what you did.

Subieguy14

This little thread revival went 0-100 REAL quick