The Rules Have Changed
04-04-2022, 12:07 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by threeighteen
hopefully purple and brown drop degree requirement and keep PIC, but it’s either the degree requirement or the PIC requirement that will have to be relaxed at both…
My money would be on ups first changing something though especially with that atrocious first year pay.
04-04-2022, 02:46 PM
#12
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by KirillTheThrill
Because there is a belief turbine PIC is your fastest route to the big 4. It’s not true anymore, maybe it never was true? And it was a little known secret prior to Covid to jump ship early to a ULCC after you upgrade.
A lot of newly upgraded pilots don’t apply to the ULCC’s because they’re either semi complacent or believe PIC time carries the most weight on Airline App’s and figure they’re a year or two away from being picked off by their career destination carrier. Bottom line, they don’t apply to the ULCC’s, so they don’t have the ability to move on to a ULCC.
A lot of newly upgraded pilots don’t apply to the ULCC’s because they’re either semi complacent or believe PIC time carries the most weight on Airline App’s and figure they’re a year or two away from being picked off by their career destination carrier. Bottom line, they don’t apply to the ULCC’s, so they don’t have the ability to move on to a ULCC.
In this climate, some employers are probably leaning towards those who are not obvious top-tier material. That probably includes black-marks, ie one or two black marks might work in your favor.
04-04-2022, 03:32 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by rickair7777
It's a combination of things... TPIC is still golden, but you also need a semi-recent training event to float to the top. ULCC may prefer folks with less than 1000 TPIC because that makes you more competitive for top-tier.
In this climate, some employers are probably leaning towards those who are not obvious top-tier material. That probably includes black-marks, ie one or two black marks might work in your favor.
In this climate, some employers are probably leaning towards those who are not obvious top-tier material. That probably includes black-marks, ie one or two black marks might work in your favor.
05-17-2022, 03:11 PM
#14
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,121
Update:
Just got the CJO from Delta. Also, received an interview invite with American a week after I posted this thread and the interview with AA is this upcoming week. Then hopefully a tough decision has to be made.
I’ll say it again, nothing special about me until I updated my apps with my Spirit employment!!
Just got the CJO from Delta. Also, received an interview invite with American a week after I posted this thread and the interview with AA is this upcoming week. Then hopefully a tough decision has to be made.
I’ll say it again, nothing special about me until I updated my apps with my Spirit employment!!
05-17-2022, 03:59 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
Update:
Just got the CJO from Delta. Also, received an interview invite with American a week after I posted this thread and the interview with AA is this upcoming week. Then hopefully a tough decision has to be made.
I’ll say it again, nothing special about me until I updated my apps with my Spirit employment!!
Just got the CJO from Delta. Also, received an interview invite with American a week after I posted this thread and the interview with AA is this upcoming week. Then hopefully a tough decision has to be made.
I’ll say it again, nothing special about me until I updated my apps with my Spirit employment!!
05-17-2022, 04:05 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,605
Originally Posted by LAXtoDEN
Update:
Just got the CJO from Delta. Also, received an interview invite with American a week after I posted this thread and the interview with AA is this upcoming week. Then hopefully a tough decision has to be made.
I’ll say it again, nothing special about me until I updated my apps with my Spirit employment!!
Just got the CJO from Delta. Also, received an interview invite with American a week after I posted this thread and the interview with AA is this upcoming week. Then hopefully a tough decision has to be made.
I’ll say it again, nothing special about me until I updated my apps with my Spirit employment!!
05-18-2022, 09:23 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 171
Man I've really been going back and forth on whether or not to apply to Spirit/Frontier.
Background: 28 years old, currently an FO, home based in PHX, which is great. Flew Part 135 for a short while and was a CFI before that. No failures of any kind, clean record, engineering background (worked for a large aerospace company previously). Recently had my apps and resume reviewed (Delta, United, American, SWA). Need to add Alaska to that list too I guess.
My initial thoughts have been to just upgrade at SKW and then hopefully move on to a legacy. I could upgrade at the end of this year. However, it seems like a lot of guys in my shoes are jumping to LCCs. I've been really torn on whether or not to apply to Spirit and Frontier. I think what really is preventing me is the idea of commuting to Philly or Florida. Seems like that would be a total nightmare from AZ. My wife and I just bought our first home in AZ too, so moving to Philly or Florida is not an option right now. In addition, by the time I interviewed with a LCC, went through training, IOE, etc, I wouldn't be far off from upgrading at SKW. I've been very proactive in positioning myself, hence why I've already had my apps and resume professionally reviewed. Next step will probably be to attend one of these conferences (potentially OBAP in August).
I've been flying with a ton of SKW Captains with less than ~500 hours PIC who are getting picked up at the legacies. My gut tells me stick it out, upgrade, and work hard to get to a legacy. Also with this upcoming recession, I may be in a better position at SKW than at the bottom of a LCC?
Background: 28 years old, currently an FO, home based in PHX, which is great. Flew Part 135 for a short while and was a CFI before that. No failures of any kind, clean record, engineering background (worked for a large aerospace company previously). Recently had my apps and resume reviewed (Delta, United, American, SWA). Need to add Alaska to that list too I guess.
My initial thoughts have been to just upgrade at SKW and then hopefully move on to a legacy. I could upgrade at the end of this year. However, it seems like a lot of guys in my shoes are jumping to LCCs. I've been really torn on whether or not to apply to Spirit and Frontier. I think what really is preventing me is the idea of commuting to Philly or Florida. Seems like that would be a total nightmare from AZ. My wife and I just bought our first home in AZ too, so moving to Philly or Florida is not an option right now. In addition, by the time I interviewed with a LCC, went through training, IOE, etc, I wouldn't be far off from upgrading at SKW. I've been very proactive in positioning myself, hence why I've already had my apps and resume professionally reviewed. Next step will probably be to attend one of these conferences (potentially OBAP in August).
I've been flying with a ton of SKW Captains with less than ~500 hours PIC who are getting picked up at the legacies. My gut tells me stick it out, upgrade, and work hard to get to a legacy. Also with this upcoming recession, I may be in a better position at SKW than at the bottom of a LCC?
05-18-2022, 10:00 AM
#18
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by CC268
I've been flying with a ton of SKW Captains with less than ~500 hours PIC who are getting picked up at the legacies. My gut tells me stick it out, upgrade, and work hard to get to a legacy. Also with this upcoming recession, I may be in a better position at SKW than at the bottom of a LCC?
Hard to account for the alleged recession. Don't know if or how bad it would be. I wouldn't worry about furlough risk at majors unless you're the key bread-winner and have family circumstances which are not flexible. If it's just you and the wife, you're probably flexible.
Personally I kind of doubt many furloughs this time... ULCC/LCC tend to thrive (relatively) during recessions and the legacies probably cannot afford to idle their training pipelines or they'll never catch up again when things recover.
05-18-2022, 11:26 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by rickair7777
At your age, I'd shoot for the legacies. Life-changing opportunity.
Hard to account for the alleged recession. Don't know if or how bad it would be. I wouldn't worry about furlough risk at majors unless you're the key bread-winner and have family circumstances which are not flexible. If it's just you and the wife, you're probably flexible.
Personally I kind of doubt many furloughs this time... ULCC/LCC tend to thrive (relatively) during recessions and the legacies probably cannot afford to idle their training pipelines or they'll never catch up again when things recover.
Hard to account for the alleged recession. Don't know if or how bad it would be. I wouldn't worry about furlough risk at majors unless you're the key bread-winner and have family circumstances which are not flexible. If it's just you and the wife, you're probably flexible.
Personally I kind of doubt many furloughs this time... ULCC/LCC tend to thrive (relatively) during recessions and the legacies probably cannot afford to idle their training pipelines or they'll never catch up again when things recover.
05-18-2022, 03:16 PM
#20
Lives in Base
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 399
Originally Posted by CC268
I may be in a better position at SKW than at the bottom of a LCC?
ULCCs sell their own tickets, their pay scales top at $270/hr and they offer a 15% DC. You will never be in a "better position" at a regional.
Get out as fast as you can.
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