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Slyweezy starting a Part 135

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Slyweezy starting a Part 135

Old 06-21-2022, 08:55 PM
  #21  
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See 14 CFR Part 110:
Commuter operation means any scheduled operation conducted by any person operating one of the following types of aircraft with a frequency of operations of at least five round trips per week on at least one route between two or more points according to the published flight schedules:

(1) Airplanes, other than turbojet-powered airplanes, having a maximum passenger-seat configuration of 9 seats or less, excluding each crewmember seat, and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less; or

(2) Rotorcraft.
Flag operation means any scheduled operation conducted by any person operating any airplane described in paragraph (1) of this definition at the locations described in paragraph (2) of this definition:

(1) Airplanes:

(i) Turbojet-powered airplanes;

(ii) Airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than 9 passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat; or

(iii) Airplanes having a payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds.

(2) Locations:

(i) Between any point within the State of Alaska or the State of Hawaii or any territory or possession of the United States and any point outside the State of Alaska or the State of Hawaii or any territory or possession of the United States, respectively; or

(ii) Between any point within the 48 contiguous States of the United States or the District of Columbia and any point outside the 48 contiguous States of the United States and the District of Columbia.

(iii) Between any point outside the U.S. and another point outside the U.S.

On-demand operation means any operation for compensation or hire that is one of the following:

(1) Passenger-carrying operations conducted as a public charter under part 380 of this chapter or any operations in which the departure time, departure location, and arrival location are specifically negotiated with the customer or the customer's representative that are any of the following types of operations:

(i) Common carriage operations conducted with airplanes, including turbojet-powered airplanes, having a passenger-seat configuration of 30 seats or fewer, excluding each crewmember seat, and a payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less, except that operations using a specific airplane that is also used in domestic or flag operations and that is so listed in the operations specifications as required by § 119.49(a)(4) of this chapter for those operations are considered supplemental operations;

(ii) Noncommon or private carriage operations conducted with airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of less than 20 seats, excluding each crewmember seat, and a payload capacity of less than 6,000 pounds; or

(iii) Any rotorcraft operation.

(2) Scheduled passenger-carrying operations conducted with one of the following types of aircraft with a frequency of operations of less than five round trips per week on at least one route between two or more points according to the published flight schedules:

(i) Airplanes, other than turbojet powered airplanes, having a maximum passenger-seat configuration of 9 seats or less, excluding each crewmember seat, and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less; or

(ii) Rotorcraft.

(3) All-cargo operations conducted with airplanes having a payload capacity of 7,500 pounds or less, or with rotorcraft.

So if I'm reading this right, you'll get to negotiate your ticket, time of departure and destination.

So unless I'm reading this wrong, the only thing they could do under 135 with JETSSSS is negotiated on-demand stuff. Not commuter.
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HPNjohn View Post
You still need an ATP to be a 135 CA…
Incorrect.

FAR 135.243(c)
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
See 14 CFR Part 110:






So if I'm reading this right, you'll get to negotiate your ticket, time of departure and destination.

So unless I'm reading this wrong, the only thing they could do under 135 with JETSSSS is negotiated on-demand stuff. Not commuter.
This will operate under 14 CFR 380….”Public Air Charter”

JSX, Contour and others are already doing it currently…selling tickets on E145s to the general public.
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TipTanks View Post
This will operate under 14 CFR 380….”Public Air Charter”

JSX, Contour and others are already doing it currently…selling tickets on E145s to the general public.
If they are going to operate within the scope of below, sure. Is this practical? Seems like a pipe-dream? Those others use charter organizations to "sell" the tickets.
§ 380.2 Definitions.For the purposes of this part:

Certificated air carrier means a U.S. direct air carrier holding a certificate issued under the statute.

Charter flight means a flight operated under the terms of a charter contract between a direct air carrier and its customer. It does not include scheduled air transportation, scheduled foreign air transportation, or nonscheduled cargo air transportation, sold on an individually ticketed or individually waybilled basis.

Direct air carrier means a certificated commuter or foreign air carrier, or an air taxi operator registered under part 298 of this chapter, or a Canadian charter air taxi operator registered under part 294 of this chapter, that directly engages in the operation of aircraft under a certificate, authorization, permit or exemption issued by the Department.

Educational institution means a school that is operated as such on a year-round basis and is empowered to grant academic degrees or secondary school diplomas by any government in the United States or by a foreign government.

Foreign air carrier means a direct air carrier that holds a foreign air carrier permit issued under the statute or an exemption issued under the statute authorizing direct foreign air transportation.

Foreign Public Charter operator means an indirect air carrier which is not a citizen of the United States as defined in the statute, that is authorized to engage in the formation of groups for transportation on Public Charters in accordance with this part.

Indirect air carrier means any person who undertakes to engage indirectly in air transportation operations and who uses for such transportation the services of a direct air carrier.

Public Charter means a one-way or round-trip charter flight to be performed by one or more direct air carriers that is arranged and sponsored by a charter operator.

Public Charter operator means a U.S. or foreign Public Charter operator.

Security agreement means:

(1) A surety bond issued by a company -

(i) That is listed in the Best's Insurance Reports (Fire and Casualty) with a general policyholders' rating of “A” or better, or

(ii) That is listed in the U.S. Department of Treasury's notice listing companies holding Certificates of Authority as acceptable sureties on Federal bonds and as acceptable reinsuring companies, published in the Federal Register in the first week in July; or

(2) A Surety trust agreement or a letter-of-credit, issued by a Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation-insured financial institution, which provides substantially equivalent protection.

Sub-operator means a Public Charter operator that has contracted for its charter seats from a Public Charter operator that has contracted from one or more direct air carriers. A sub-operator is itself an indirect air carrier, not an agent of the Public Charter operator from which it has obtained its seat.

U.S. Public Charter operator means an indirect air carrier that is a citizen of the United States as defined in 49 U.S.C. 40102(a) and that is authorized to engage in the formation of groups for transportation on Public Charters in accordance with this part.
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
If they are going to operate within the scope of below, sure. Is this practical? Seems like a pipe-dream? Those others use charter organizations to "sell" the tickets.
I’m not an aviation lawyer, but I doubt you are either. So really I don’t know.

But seems like a bit of a paper shuffle to have a charter company sell the tickets and have the certificate holder operate the flights.

I don’t know. If it were me I might incorporate a company called SW Charter Holdings, Inc. to operate the flights and then another company called SkyWest Charter, LLC to sell the tickets.

Point is it can be done. I can buy a ticket to Vegas on JSX any day of the week. Feels no different than buying a ticket on Southwest.
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Old 06-21-2022, 11:43 PM
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The real question is who will be marketing those flights. I don’t think they will show up with UA or DL flight numbers in some reservation system.

Is OO starting to sell tickets? Can you book a continuous itinerary from Podunk to ATL? Will they get connection fees from any mainline partner?

This will get really interesting.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:27 AM
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There are several small cargo airlines across he US that have a 135 certificate for their cargo Flacon 20's and Learjet's and a 121 certificate for their cargo Douglas and Boeings. They operate as a single company and pilot group with some small restrictions that put a fence between the two types of certificates. The structure Skywest is proposing isn't anything new and has been working from a FAA certification standpoint.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TipTanks View Post
Incorrect.

FAR 135.243(c)

135.243.(a)(1)
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:46 AM
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Company memo said they will hold the charter side to the same safety standards as the 121 side. Not a whole lot of new info. But will use 200’s currently not being used.
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TFAYD View Post
The real question is who will be marketing those flights. I don’t think they will show up with UA or DL flight numbers in some reservation system.

Is OO starting to sell tickets? Can you book a continuous itinerary from Podunk to ATL? Will they get connection fees from any mainline partner?

This will get really interesting.

the document states they will use AA/UA/DL’s systems.
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