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Old 04-24-2015, 09:43 AM
  #9891  
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Think SFO is over for new hires on 175 but not sure
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:45 AM
  #9892  
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I would rather get a base ahead of time rather than walking out of training, but I fully understand the seniority system. How would walking out of training appear on a PRIA record? "Failure to complete training" can be interpreted so many ways.
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Old 04-24-2015, 09:58 AM
  #9893  
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Originally Posted by skypilot35 View Post
My number has gone up 145 spots since mid-November. That's an average of 29 a month. There are not that many guys below me on the seniority list. How did you come up with 170 pilots?
Every Friday I take the seniority list, drop in Excel, run a compare and see who is not on the list from the previous week.

Since the first of March, we have lost 30 pilots with 3000+ numbers. 23 of those have been listed as TRG when they left. That's the point I am making is that it doesn't matter how many we hire or how many people we have in class, if we can't even get them on the line before they are out the door.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:02 AM
  #9894  
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Originally Posted by Nevets View Post
If a union at a regional doesn't have any power when it comes to getting contracts, then how did awac, horizon, and xjt get theirs?
When the RFP came out from the individual carriers did the MECs of AWAC, Horizon, and XJT write the proposal? Was their counsel sought before the bids were submitted? When / Before the deal was signed were they given the opportunity to review it? Does the MEC make the final decision on whether or not the contract is accepted?

Mainline Management dictates the rates and Regional Management forces compliance. It has happened repeatedly and will continue to happen as long as there are separate regional pilot groups. The lowest bidder will get the contract.

Do you honestly believe that they would have gotten just as much if they were non-union? Don't think so and that's why your argument doesn't hold water.
You're asking me to prove a negative. Do you honestly believe Skywest Airlines would have gotten just as much if they were union? Before you say they would have gotten more, look at the union regionals (excluding XJT) and compare.

Originally Posted by Nevets View Post
It's just an example of a pilot group who ended at the top because others came down.

There is no comparison that can / should ever be drawn between a major and regional....except maybe that we fly planes and the same laws of aerodynamics apply in varying degrees

And if there EVER was going to be a regional that can sustain it, it's Skywest. But you rather not even try. That's the mentality that doesn't help. If a pilot group is not willing to try to raise the bar, especially when they are in a position to do so, then the pilot group who is at the top will be brought down. I can't believe I have to even explain this.


I wouldn't say we are not willing to try. I am willing to bet within the next 2 years Skywest will vote in a union. MY OPINION. QOL is decreasing for everyone on the seniority list, not just the guys on reserve. It's not a money issue and the company seems intransigent on the work rules. We need a stronger negotiating tool, but the reluctance is because of what I've outlined above.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Regional unions are sometimes in a position to GET contract enhancements, because management doesn't want to deal with disruption in the short-term. KEEPING said enhancements in the regional ecosystem is a whole 'nother issue. Oh yeah, you forget to mention COMAIR. And didn't horizon get industry-leading rates for their jets?
Exactly.

On another note, the offer we currently have from management is not concessionary (on the face of it), but it's ridiculous all the same. The fact that UAL just posted a $582+ million dollar profit is one of many reasons people call 1.00 /.50 a slap in the face.

Nevets, you figure out how to get the entire regional pilot group on one list and under one MEC, I'm in. I'll volunteer to help. Otherwise, a regional union is ineffective. Lowest bidder wins and there is always gonna be a lower bidding...race to the bottom competitor....that's capitalism.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:03 AM
  #9895  
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How is seniority & base choice assigned in class. Age? Social security? Whats the reserve call out? I figured due to cost of living SFO would be on the low end of desirability and it seems they are putting new equipment for UAL there, right?
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:04 AM
  #9896  
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Originally Posted by disillusioned View Post
Every Friday I take the seniority list, drop in Excel, run a compare and see who is not on the list from the previous week.

Since the first of March, we have lost 30 pilots with 3000+ numbers. 23 of those have been listed as TRG when they left. That's the point I am making is that it doesn't matter how many we hire or how many people we have in class, if we can't even get them on the line before they are out the door.

Roger. Thanks for the info. I was not aware.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:15 AM
  #9897  
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
How is seniority & base choice assigned in class. Age? Social security? Whats the reserve call out? I figured due to cost of living SFO would be on the low end of desirability and it seems they are putting new equipment for UAL there, right?
Class seniority is done by last. 4 of social with 0000 most senior 9999 most junior. After the bid is out and they see which bases have openings they assign new hires to those slots
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:16 AM
  #9898  
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
How is seniority & base choice assigned in class. Age? Social security? Whats the reserve call out? I figured due to cost of living SFO would be on the low end of desirability and it seems they are putting new equipment for UAL there, right?

You pick/agree to equipment when you accept the class date.

Seniority within class by last four of SSN (lower = senior).

Base assignments start with what is available (ie not taken by old-hires), in seniority order.

Call out 2 hours.

Some folks would of course avoid SFO due to cost, but most pilots who are from the west coast chose SKW given the option...so there will always be some bay area locals who can live with the rents, or have a spouse pulling in bay-area wages. I'd say there's a decent chance you'd get SFO right off the bat, but if not it should only be a month or three (most likely before you complete training, since they run a bid every month).
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:18 AM
  #9899  
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My SS number is slightly below 5000. So I'd need Jimmy the Greek to figure the odds of equipment bases, etc. By age, I'd probably highest seniority in class. Oh well.
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Old 04-24-2015, 10:42 AM
  #9900  
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Originally Posted by chazbird View Post
My SS number is slightly below 5000. So I'd need Jimmy the Greek to figure the odds of equipment bases, etc. By age, I'd probably highest seniority in class. Oh well.
Most junior pilot in SFO has been here 3 months. He's on the E175.
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