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Old 04-24-2015, 12:58 PM   #9901  
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CRJ2 is making money (lots of it). You don't park planes that make money unless someone wants you to fly planes that make even more money (and the E-175 is not it...yet). Why else did SkyWest just grow by 12 CRJ2s for Delta? I know, I know, every industry pundit and pilot and CEO wants to tell you the 50-seaters are gas hogs and money losers and they can't get rid of them fast enough. And yet, they are still going. If the CRJ2 is a money loser, then Air Wisconsin is going to be feeling the heat long before SkyWest will.
Only if they are subsidized by mainline do they make money, remember Independence Air?

Besides, whether or not they make money, you still need the pilots to fly them. My guess is 5 years from now regionals will be nothing but 70-76 seat feed for mainline. In 10 years the regional industry may not even exist.

Regardless of who feels the heat first, every regional with 50 seaters will eventually feel it.
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Old 04-24-2015, 01:44 PM   #9902  
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Only if they are subsidized by mainline do they make money, remember Independence Air?

Besides, whether or not they make money, you still need the pilots to fly them. My guess is 5 years from now regionals will be nothing but 70-76 seat feed for mainline. In 10 years the regional industry may not even exist.

Regardless of who feels the heat first, every regional with 50 seaters will eventually feel it.
Not sure what the subsidy is, but we're FFD. On 6 of 8 flights the passenger count was 50. 2 flights were over 46. Are you saying they sell those seats at a loss. With a 582 million dollar profit, I doubt it.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:00 PM   #9903  
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Not sure what the subsidy is, but we're FFD. On 6 of 8 flights the passenger count was 50. 2 flights were over 46. Are you saying they sell those seats at a loss. With a 582 million dollar profit, I doubt it.
Because the cost per seat/mile is the highest on 50 seaters, those are the hardest to make money on, even full. Check out UAL investor relations to see how many we are parking this year.

As for subsidies, I'd call paying for all the fuel a subsidy.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:13 PM   #9904  
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Because the cost per seat/mile is the highest on 50 seaters, those are the hardest to make money on, even full. Check out UAL investor relations to see how many we are parking this year.

As for subsidies, I'd call paying for all the fuel a subsidy.
Im sure that's in the negotiated contract....the one that allows for the tremendous pilot compensation and profit margins.

They should put mainline plane on the routes covered by RJs.

Why do these "subsidies" exist anyway?
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:59 PM   #9905  
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"You pick/agree to equipment when you accept the class date".

Which is pick and which is agree? Base? Aircraft? Both? One or the other? So, if they offer me a class date and everyone has already given their social security numbers and it doesn't have SFO for me can I conditionally agree to the next available class that has my base choice available for me (IE SFO)? Seems this would be a win-win-win (a relative term of course). What are they going to do, never consider hiring me because of this? OK fine, but I don't think under this arrangement I would be asking for any favors, and if they aren't up for it, it would be their "loss". I thought about going to a job fair and proposing just this sort of thing to see their reaction.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:34 PM   #9906  
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"You pick/agree to equipment when you accept the class date".

Which is pick and which is agree? Base? Aircraft? Both? One or the other? So, if they offer me a class date and everyone has already given their social security numbers and it doesn't have SFO for me can I conditionally agree to the next available class that has my base choice available for me (IE SFO)? Seems this would be a win-win-win (a relative term of course). What are they going to do, never consider hiring me because of this? OK fine, but I don't think under this arrangement I would be asking for any favors, and if they aren't up for it, it would be their "loss". I thought about going to a job fair and proposing just this sort of thing to see their reaction.
Bases are bid on during training, you won't know what base you get until indoc starts.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:49 PM   #9907  
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So, when I am in indoc and I don't get SFO and I tell them, sorry, no can do, what goes on the PRIA? An insolent fire starting, upstart Rasputin, which will haunt and hold me back forever? Or what? Any ideas?

I am beginning to see the light though. Probably rather than award a base before the class, like they could, maybe they will stick with what they have. I fully understand the senior people wanting to change their domiciles and not getting in their way, but the slots after that are what I am talking about. They could rearrange that process and get more people into their classes. But if they aren't willing to be creative, all the while not stepping on more senior pilots, then maybe they are not so bright. I am in no way shocked, this sort of mentality (among other lapses) seems to have gotten them where they are as far as pilot staffing.
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Old 04-24-2015, 04:57 PM   #9908  
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As a prior 121 guy you should know better. What you're asking is the entire industry to change how it's always done things.
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:03 PM   #9909  
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As a prior 121 guy you should know better. What you're asking is the entire industry to change how it's always done things.
Which is one small component of why they are in their situation. My idea doesn't screw anyone over and provides a benefit to the company and a prospective new pilot, all the while not treading on seniority.

I am still interested in how the PRIA would play out as far as me walking out of indoc? I would so rather avoid screwing the company over by bailing and also avoid risking something on a PRIA document.
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:32 PM   #9910  
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You're asking me to prove a negative. Do you honestly believe Skywest Airlines would have gotten just as much if they were union? Before you say they would have gotten more, look at the union regionals (excluding XJT) and compare.



I wouldn't say we are not willing to try. I am willing to bet within the next 2 years Skywest will vote in a union. MY OPINION. QOL is decreasing for everyone on the seniority list, not just the guys on reserve. It's not a money issue and the company seems intransigent on the work rules. We need a stronger negotiating tool, but the reluctance is because of what I've outlined above.
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Exactly.

On another note, the offer we currently have from management is not concessionary (on the face of it), but it's ridiculous all the same. The fact that UAL just posted a $582+ million dollar profit is one of many reasons people call 1.00 /.50 a slap in the face.

Nevets, you figure out how to get the entire regional pilot group on one list and under one MEC, I'm in. I'll volunteer to help. Otherwise, a regional union is ineffective. Lowest bidder wins and there is always gonna be a lower bidding...race to the bottom competitor....that's capitalism.

Look, there are ups and downs in the airline industry. Both at mainline and at regionals. When the tide was rising Comair got a really good contract, then it was ACA, then xjt, then air Wisconsin, then xjt again, then horizon. At that point the tide turned. Skywest CERTAINLY would've been up there with their hundreds of millions of dollars in profit. Skywest has been the most profitable regional in history, more so than any of the other ones I just mentioned that each raised the bar when it was their turn. If you don't think that Skywest pilots would've ever gotten a contract that was at least comparable to the top contract, then I don't know what to tell you. And now, almost every single regional is increasing their pilot cost by offering better and better compensation packages. Yet many of them are not even close to the profitability that Skywest currently has. I'm not saying that pilot unions are all powerful at all. Many of them have weak pilots in their MECs leading them. And dispute that, some of them are making gains. Now is the time to use some of that leverage to get up there in the top tier. If you don't think that you can do that with a pilot union at Skywest, then you are saying your pilots are not good enough to achieve it. I personally think they can if they were union. And that would help all the rest of us.

Anyway, of course it would be ideal if there was a single seniority list and one regional pilot Union. But the perfect shouldn't get in the way of the "better than what we have now." It honestly sounds like a convenient excuse to not be for a pilot union. I think it's a cop out since it'll almost certainly ever happen.
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