Expressjet the pilots or Expressjet management isn't "willing to assist?" What form of assistance would you like? Are you talking legacy Expressjet or the new combined XJT?

You do realize that there are significant costs to merging companies and that it often takes quite some time before efficiencies are realized, right? Either Skywest's management knew what they were doing and there were significant economies of scale to be taken advantage of, or they didn't and are simply poor businessmen. Skywest is running the show now, so it's up to you guys to implement whatever plans you thought you had for us by acquiring our airline. If it doesn't work, then maybe your management made a bad decision.

But in the meantime, how can we assist you?

XJT was losing money long before SkyWest purchased them and their still losing money today. As subcontractors you can't ask and expect the moon, or do so and then watch all the new flying go to GoJet as you downgrade and furlough.

Again, Skywest bought Expressjet wholly informed about their finances, and with full knowledge of their current contract And that they would soon be in negotiations for a new one.

Pay rates look about the same. Vacation and per diem are not too far off. So what's your problem? Do you feel our work rules are making our side unprofitable? Anyway, it seems like you want us to take pay cuts to make sure your regional career is as stable and possible. I understand where you are coming from. But we simply want what everyone wants - improved qol.

By the way, our financials have been steadily improving. Even your management expects profitability this year. We are doing fine. Skywest has plenty of cash. Relax, we are not going to bankrupt you. As we continue integrating with ASA we should only get more efficient.

Dont call me a troll. You just snort the KoolAid powder right out of the box.

Fact. Skywest only gets vacation they bid per day, Pbs will bid around those days. Of you take three vacation days pbs cab put a trip infront and behind it.

Fact. Skywest pilots have to sit ready at the airport inside the footprint of a canceled turn.

Fact. Skywest fires more people than any 121 airline in America.

Fact. Skywest pilots only get paid a base crj rate and an override only when they fly a 70.

So what`s your point man? If you are trying to prove you are not a troll by posting 4 "facts" about SKW, (i would like to see your data on #3) i think you`re unsuccessful. So troll away man, if that`s what makes you happy :)

BTW: Probably best to proof read your post so your spelling doesn`t read like a 3rd grader.

But you are an APC troll; all you have to do is read you’re postings. Everyone on here can tell you're a miserable person and you probably live under a bridge that has SkyWest painted in it.

BTW, if things are so bad over here why is the overwhelming MAJOIRTY of our pilot group made up of pilots from other 121 (including LOTS of ex-XJTers) union careers and we're happy? And if it’s sooooo bad why do unions keep getting voted down with, again, the majority of our pilots being from other 121 union carriers?

Just about all of the people I work with who are CFI's or are working towards it (dispatchers at a small private jet charter) want to go to SkyWest.

That carries no weight, but hey. :D

First my friend, I mean no offense. Keep in mind I’m pro-ALPA and I have 2 business degrees with years of experience.

Your pay rates aren’t the problem, over all we‘re around $1 or $2 of each other with SkyWest Airlines on average paying a bit more. One question is how much are you guys asking for? Just $1 more when you have 4500 pilots will cost the company around $4.5 million. If you try to raise the bar by 5% then you could find yourself losing far more than that when it comes to lost upgrades and furloughs, it’s just not worth it. Yes more money would be great but we’re “subcontractors” and in this industry you’ll get replaced at the drop of a hat by another airline that makes far less much (GoJet).

There are many other areas you guys could cut cost without decreasing your income. On the L-ASA side, operating the CR2 and CR7/9’s with two separate pilot list increases cost quite a bit and seriously decreases both crew and aircraft utilizations/efficiencies. I’ve heard pilot say it’s not safe, come on man you’re a professional pilot! At Delta they operate the 757-200, 757-300 and 767-300ER (those are WAY more different) all with the same group. Same goes for the 737-700 and 737-800, plus the MD-88/90 and A319/A320. They’re not the only ones, Alaska operates all their 737’s (700, 800 and 900’s) with the same group and FedEx operates the MD(DC)-10 and MD-11 with the same group. In addition US Air with their A319, A320 and A321’s; SWA with their 737-300/500/700 & 800’s, Spirit with A319/A321’s, JetBlue with their A319/A320’s…… the list goes on and on. Here at SkyWest we operate all three (CR2/7/9) with one group. I've never heard our pilots complain, mostly I hear about how much they like it and we’re not the only CRJ operator who does this. The only restriction at SkyWest is when you’re on a CR2 trip you won’t flow into the CR7 or CR9 but only because they like to keep the crews together (match scheds or simplicity) and that would require an additional FA for a few legs. Our CR7 and CR9 trips will flow between to two since you're already a crew of 4.

Next there’s PBS, yes complain all you want about it but it reduces cost though better crew and aircraft utilization and in order to stay competitive it’s just another way to reduce cost without taking pay cuts.

Another way SkyWest Inc. can reduce cost is by merging the new XJT with SkyWest Airlines. One set of labor groups, on Mgmt. group, one training department, on Mx department, no dual domiciles, etc. This would greatly reduce cost.

For the pbs haters...

Ummm.. I had 4 days vacation. Ended up with 10 days off....

With XJTs soft time rules you can go ahead and increase those pay rates by about $30 an hour. As a 5 year FO I flew 610 hours last year and made 50K. Just saying. Carry on.

$30 an hour? thats all? :rolleyes: If you divide my block hours into pay last year I made $169 an hour - of course that was at 12 year captain pay of $84 an hour. Do you really think that XJT is the only airline with work rules? Beyond your vacation/trip touching what do you have that others don't?

(Last year was a good year, 2010 worked out to an average of about $125 an hour.)

But it would remove their own private internal whipsaw. To their credit they haven't used it overtly and probably have no intention of doing so in the near-term but the very fact that it exists will serve to dampen each pilot group's enthusiasm for seeking unilateral improvements.

There's not going to be a merger unless the pilots merge lists first. After that happens, they might as well get rid of the duplicate overhead and merge the operations. If you're a HQ type for ASA/XJT, you should be paying careful attention to any talk of pilot list merging and maybe be keeping an eye on SGU real-estate.

I'm guessing your concerns are... Where can I upgrade/earn more pay faster. Which company will be the most stable in the long run. Where will I be happiest for the next 3-5 years waiting for an interview with big airline.

I don't work for Eagle but I am very familiar with AA management, and I can tell you the environment at SW is very different. not perfect, but not the predatory stance at AA.
OO has never furloughed. They've come close but thru some creative sacrifices from both sides it was avoided. I think this will continue to be true. Upgrade at SW? 2 to 10 years? Very broad range, I know. But what would you say the upgrade time is at a shrinking company?
The folks at SW are generally happy and I think most employees will say attitude is the biggest factor in the hiring process and you'll find good folks on the line.

I agree that SGU loves having the whipsaw ability in their back pocket and I'm positive they're using it often in contract negotiations with SureJet, I mean the "New XJT."

Well forgive me, im not familiar with your contract. We have the ability to edit our lines, however we chose to be almost exactly what we want each month. I like this better than PBS because i can work how much i want, when i want, not just "what my senority can hold". Also, i have the ability to bid check airmen lines, where i can get all my trips dropped, be pay protected for the whole month, then pickup an entire month. I can get paid 200 hours for working 90. If i bid a stand up line with 57 hours credit, anything i pick up goes on top of guarantee (75 hours) reguardless of the block. I can bad day worse day trade anything all month with pleanty of open time to chose from. After the 29th of the previous month, anything that is dropped or edited in my schedule for the next month is pay protected reguardless of the reason. In a vacation month, anything i pick up is added onto 75 hours of pay, even if my block is 20 hours. If you guys can do this stuff thats awesome, you truly understand how good it can be :)

Most of that we cannot do but that's also what's keeping us in the black. Last year I blocked 754 hours and had a year end credit value of 1187. Our Perf and Fin bonuses increased my pay another $2500. Not the best but by far not the worse. We are competitively paid and if we want to work we can make a crap load of money, if we don't we still get paid very well for a subcontractor. And our company's currently making money. A balance has to be maintained otherwise we will find ourselves shrinking which benefits no one. What good is all that money when you get downgraded or furloughed?

With respect XJT was losing money prior to SkyWest Inc. purchasing you and now you are still losing money. They need to figure out how to correct this before it sinks the ship.

Thank you for reinforcing my negative attitude towards PBS. I have 7 days vacation, which resulted in 23 days off in a row.

We've been working under this contract for 8 years and posted a profit for 6 of those, how do you explain that? I hate to tell you buddy but you better start getting very worried if you really believe what youre saying, because there isnt a single person here that is willing to give any of this up. We have all the votes so what ASA wants doesnt matter. We cannot be forced into arbitration without our consent (which will never be given) so we'll work under this contract forever. Your attitude towards "staying in the black "is the exact reason why this industry is in the state its in. People kept saying it and saying it and before long regionals were created and so was the crap pay that comes along with them. But hey guys, what good is all this money if we're furloughing and downgrading? Give me an Fen break man. Im not giving another cent, there are plenty of other carrers worth our respect, im not going to keep giving and giving until i work 25 days and make 20K. Some of you people on here really make me sick.

With respect to your lack of knowledge (I know you guys at SKYW weren't privy to the inside baseball on what happened in 2008), SKYW Inc engineered XJT's losses 3 years prior to the current merger.

During SKYW's first attempt to buy XJT in 2008, SKW negotiated an inferior CPA with Continental in advance. When the 2008 acquisition broke off, XJT was strong-armed into the contract that SKW negotiated and forced to shut down the Branded/Delta operations, not because of losses, but because CAL wanted the E145XR's back in their system flying to Mexico. 3 months after the pull-down of Branded, the oil bubble burst and the operation would have been comfortably in the green, but CAL/SKYW had already won the Mexican stand-off.

The ship is not sinking, 3rd grade math can figure that out...over half Billion cash on hand ($646.51 Million). Enough for SGU to buy contracts for SKYW with $80 Mil loans to UAL. Enough for XJT to operate for 20 years losing $8 Mil/Quarter. Not that the reported losses are even remotely accurate, given we are in contract negotiations and every losing asset is being sold off to leverage the Balance Sheet. Sometime this year the operation will actually show a Quarterly profit (JMHO) to please the shareholders.

You guys are in for a surprise when Mgmt comes to you for concessions because the XJT operation is actually cheaper. :eek:

At SKW, I blocked 680 in 2011 and earned $56K (2 months on a LOA) on $42/hr. I blocked 880 in 2010 and earned $54K on $39/hr.

If you look at the trends we have been losing less and less money each year since 2007. Skywest has said on their quarterly call that they expect the Expressjet side to be profitable first quarter or at least second quarter 2012. We've been moving in the right direction for a while now, so I think your worries about us sinking the ship are unfounded. I think we lost $18 million last quarter, and skywest has $650+ million just in cash, so it would be a long time even at those rates before we put you in peril. But just remember, we are getting more efficient each quarter, and let's just see if the xjet/ASA side brings a profit first quarter. They should have that conference call mid April I think. Don't worry, all will be okay. Skywest Inc is well positioned overall in the industry.

I read a really neat article about why it was an under-the-radar genius move to buy Expressjet, and it has to do with our long term contract with Continental. It has to do with the eventual transition to larger RJ's and how we are contractually locked in to fly them when that transition occurs. Essentially, other companies can't bid on most of that flying when the inevitable happens. Anyway, I'm paraphrasing, but I'll find the article again and post the link here. I think it will make you feel better.

A quick glance at XJT’s 10K’s shows that XJT hasn’t turned a profit since 2006 and regardless of how you spin XJT’s 2008 contract it was your Mgmt. team that agreed to the terms in an effort to stand alone. Jerry and friends saw an investment opportunity and CAL schooled the two parties. In the end SkyWest is paying for it, literally. Besides XJT’s slide began a long time ago in 2005 when CAL pulled 69 jets and ExpressJet attempted branded operations. I admit it was a bold attempt and ExpressJet’s branded operations had a good model and product but many reason lead to its downfall.

As for your crap pay comments, I love how those who don't understand business go straight to an extreme. This business model will not support the average pilot making $200K/yr., but will support a sold wage for a subcontractor not $20K on 25 days of work. Just remember you're a subcontractor providing fee that mainline want's for the cheapest price. If you can't provide it they will give the flying to someone else who's cheaper (GoJet). Don’t believe me? Go just ask for 20% pay raises and see what happens.

I agree with you and I hold no ill-will toward XJT, we're all subcontractors. At one time SkyWest had over $1B in the bank and had only lost money twice in its 40 year history. I hope the "New XJT" achieves the profitability Mgmt. thinks it will. I do feel at some point, not today or next year and probably long after I'm gone, but at some point they will have to merge us all.

And a quick glance at the industry over the same period shows that nobody besides Southwest and SkyWest fared much better than XJT. But for all the hemming and hawing about buying an "in the red" XJT by SKW and ASA folks, they played a part of that picture from the beginning, and that's no "Spin." If XJT was a money loser, the SKYW Management team wouldn't have tried to buy XJT twice. Despite the CPA not generating enough revenue, the one thing it did do was lock in 10 years of flying, something that guaranteed that XJT was not on "its last legs" as some would contend, and something that now makes SKYW not just a competitive bidder for UAL flying, but also a stakeholder in the eyes of UAL.
Agreed. Inc will either be profitable as 2 stand-alone carriers or it will have to be combined, it can be either way, but 5-8 years down the road I can't see them justifying to shareholders why the 2 must be separate with duplicate mgmt teams. Don't be shocked to see radically different 10K filings, especially once a JCBA is done. The SkyWest side also has Pro-Rate flying that will lose a lot of money this summer.

Look how drastically the industry has changed in the last 5 years, even management doesn't know what the company will look like in 2015, they have a plan but with AMR in BK, United and Delta are likely to force changes upon their regionals!

I realize we are subcontractors. I wish we weren't, but skywest is moving in the right direction. We now control about 70% of the regional flying for United, a position that gives us additional leverage, and the economy of scale that comes from our size should also give us a competitive advantage. It's my hope that this will allow for reasonable, incremental improvements in our contract and pay. Not 20%, nothing outrageous, just a bump. There are things other than pilot pay that factor into the winning of contracts (performance, other labor groups, management competency, culture, safety record, etc), and if we can lead in those areas we should have a leg up as well.

Read this excellent post from back during the merger, especially the last few paragraphs. I think you might then see what we can bring to the table in terms of our contract with the new United. Essentially, by buying us Skywest has guaranteed their future and put themselves a leg up on most competitors for the next decade, at least in regards to being the biggest, most essential regional feed for the world's largest airline. It also provides a likely upgrade path to newer, larger RJ's down the road.

Besides, if management can find a way to pay us all a little better, that will serve them down the road as they try to compete for a new pipeline of pilots as (hopefully), the shortage begins to take hold. There's a cultural advantage as well to having a happier pilot group. Gordon Bethune understood the advantages of culture at the old Continental. I think Skywest management does as well. I hope.

I think that's a given, hence why everyone is trying to get bigger (RAH/PCL/SKYW)...to insulate against future losses and remove small competitors from contention, and be large enough to dictate the terms of some of these changes ahead.

Gotta sleep at night too though

I'm not really sure why we're fighting... I've been riding in the js for the past several months on XJ. The guys (and gals) have been AWESOME. We are all in the same boat. We're just individual employees. We're all the same. We don't, and can't control what the company that we work for does, Individualy. That being said, cost does matter. I ran into a xj fo several months ago in ORD and we got to talking about the future. He asked how things were at Skywest and I said not to bad, although the company WE work for is losing money for the first time in I don't know how long. He said, and I quote, "don't worry about it, we lost money at XJ for years before we were broke, it'll be fine" I didn't really know what to say. Now, I'm sure he doesn't speak for everyone at XJ, I hope. But that mentality is a death sentence. No matter how much SKW, Inc has in the bank it WILL be gone if we don't control costs. I promise you that the airline with the lowest costs will see the growth, union or not. That is the ONE way we can control our future. Guys, do what you want over there, but remeber Skywest INC is in the this to make a profit. I talked to Chip in DEN the other day for the "road show" and he said that right now, they have "buyers remorse" over the XJ purchase, but hope that things will improve. Good luck to us all, to get onto the next step! Good night

I personally would not go to Skywest. They sound like PNCL.

3 airlines and a **** match over who is the one losing money, and what will likely be a merged seniority list at some point. Sounds like a great plan, wait till the guy running the places dies and his dumb ass adopted half retarded son takes over, and gives himself a 1 million $ a week raise.

Who is "Chip?"

If he isn't the CEO, CFO, or a board member, I don't think his opinion matters for much. Again, our value wasn't in immediate profitability. Any executive with half a brain that knows how to read a balance sheet and a cash flow statement wouldn't have expected to short term profit from buying xjet. Did you read the article I posted last time? The long term value is in our contracts and economies of scale. When does Skywest report first quarter financials? Let's see what those say.

FYI, Xjet has been on a cost-cutting program for several years now, with noticeable results. We've been getting leaner, just look at the trends. Now, if the ASA half can just somehow work a decent contract from Delta in the next few years, we'll be in business.

If you have not read the news, it looks like Pinnacle just filed for Chapter 11, and were saved by a loan from Delta. The only reason I can think of for Delta to do this is to keep another competitor in the arena, and specifically one that (should they emerge successfully) will have used the bankruptcy process to become artificially more competitive, and thus have a cheap airline to threaten their other carriers with. We'll see what happens.

He's the president/COO of SkyWest. :rolleyes:

When did you guys buy Mesaba (XJ) ?
;)

Saturday............... ;)

Brad Holt is Prez/COO of XJT and Chip Childs is Prez/COO of SkyWest Airlines. He's been handpicked to succeed Jerry as CEO/Chairmen. He spends a lot of time Jumpseating around the system and talking with our pilots.

Russell A. (Chip) Childs Profile - Forbes.com

Have any pilot group "ask for an across the board 20% raise" and "see what happens"!

They did, it was call the 90s, and they actually got it. When airlines start turning multi-billion dollar a year profits, which is AFTER paying for a ton of new metal, well yes, we get to ask for 20%+. Then when things turn, so do the requests....

I'm talking the present, not the past... No ones currently consistently making "multi-billion dollar a year profits", they're just trying to stay profitable with $100.00 plus dollar a barrel oil along with excessive government taxation.