It never ceases to amaze me how juvenile many of you are...

No debates over opinions, just juvenile attacks.

Yes, I'm pretty sure you're pretty proud of yourself :D

Sorry, that was just too easy.

You have no Idea what your talking about sunny! LXJT is making money with our concessionary and still superior to yours or any regional out there contract. I would love to see where your getting your info from.

From what I've seen of your operation in DEN if we ran our side like that we would be the next Comair, your just lucky you have us to leach off of now. Dam you guys have a half a$$ operation. So I wouldn't worry about allot of us guys running out there till you bring it up to our standards.

So don't think every XJT guy want to run out to DEN we don't. I would also bet there are some that would love to get out also and if we were merged it would be nice for some guys to finally be home. Way to think about yourself, typical pilot.

Point proven.........

Cocky pr1ck much? For some of us on the west coast, OO and QX weren't an option because they weren't hiring while we were in the job market. But that's alright, we likely wouldn't have passed the rigorous interview that you clearly aced.

I believe he is talking about the clause which states that if one aircraft is transferred to Skywest, pilots go with longevity AND seniority. Those other "bottom feeder" pilots are not party between ALPA and Skywest Inc.

It's only enforceable because we live within the rule of law. In other words, the RLA says that disputes are settled by arbitrators and federal courts if necessary.

Don't get to emotional, the smiley face was there for a reason :cool:

The poster you responded too referred to it as "XJT is making money", as opposed to "we". You take the liberty of saying "you", and "you guys".

Now, along the lines of your other posts, pilots just fly the airplanes and management is in charge of the finances.

So making it personal, who's the juvenile now?

But if you want to talk about ACTUAL facts, you DO know why the losses happened at XJT from fall of 2008 till just recently, DON'T YOU?

The poster is an L-XJT pilot and he's referring to the L-XJT contract therefor L-XJT. When I say “you guys” it's obvious I mean L-XJT which turned its first profit since 06 and only after being linked to ASA with Inc. in control. I didn't say "we" because SkyWest has been very profitable dating all the way back to early 70's with very few quarters in the red and in SkyWest financial reports they breakdown the two sides. Now I give Jerry and friends some respect when it comes to their ability to run a regional airline.

There are no personal attacks in stating the obvious pertaining to the business. Tell me what pilot group runs an airlines finances or makes business decisions such as domiciles, equipment, contracts, Mx, loans, etc.? That is far different than calling someone "Chip, D-Bag, cocky pr1ch, etc."

Sure I understand that Smisek played Jerry’s (and made him look like a fool) willingness to take on XJT in 08 into whipping L-XJT into a thin contract but that wasn’t Jerry’s doing. That was truly on Smisek. Jerry’s wasn’t the one who pulled 69 jets from XJT in early 06 and then decided to start up branded operations with the XR’s which p1ssed off Smisek even more since he wanted the XR's flying for CAL. Which was a slick move by L-XJT's mgmt. at the time, but the house always wins.

You're obviously NOT reading everything I've posted. But that's cool, I'll drop it after this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MatchPoint (Post 1262932)

Sure I understand that Smisek played Jerry’s (and made him look like a fool)

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Made Jerry look like a fool? No he didn't. Jerry got a multi-million dollar pay out for his "thanks for helping us punk ExpressJet" from CAL. Besides, that was just the first step in JA's "operation you break it, you buy it". I'm pretty sure he knew there would be an opportunity down the road at some point. All the while he was laughing to the bank to go cash his check from Jeffrey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MatchPoint (Post 1262932)

That was truly on Smisek. Jerry’s wasn’t the one who pulled 69 jets from XJT in early 06 and then decided to start up branded operations with the XR’s which p1ssed off Smisek even more since he wanted the XR's flying for CAL. Which was a slick move on L-XJT mgmts. part at the time, but the hous always wins.

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Larry was still in charge, so he had to give the approval for that move. But yes, Jeffrey was a part of it. And the XR's that went to DelCon/Branded ops was more the incompetence of CAL's accounting and bean counting people. If they were using their heads, they WOULDN'T have let them go.

We can stomp our feet and scream and shout all we want and its not going to make any difference one way or the other. The reality is, 1)until JA and Chip want to merge the lists its not going to happen or 2) Skywest airlines joins ALPA. Currently after the last few beatings, ALPA is not willing to start a drive, that could change obviously. I flew with a former CP after the big "meeting" between our pilot groups took place, he called KB to find out what the companies stance was. KB said that of the top 4 leaders here, none were interested in any way of merging the groups.
To explain why the majority of Skywest pilots don't want to merge is really rather simple, and most of us have been around long enough to understand it, I think:). We don't have a union, the company doesn't want us to organize. The threat of a union is stronger than the union itself would be. We understand that and whenever things start to get a little out of control from managment we start another drive. All of a sudden the company becomes nice again and the process starts over. If more flying were to go to XJ than us then we would be up in arms and, again we start murmuring about a union, or merging the groups, neither of which they want. This whole process is understood by the pilots and by managment. Clear as mud? This last award of the Eagle stuff is case in point, we got 12 ac XJ got 11.

Your welcome for KCM, CASS, FFDO, ASAP, FOQA, TCAS, etc.

Well Said!!!!!!!

just fyi, because it wasn't fully clear from the SKYW investor call: (they spoke about an increase in income)

XJT decreased the loss.
XJT didnt make a profit last quarter.

Thanks for all you do.

Is thats starting to stick? I never fly outta DEN :-/

lets kick out ALPA, start our own in house across all 3, and kick ass. Im sure RAH, PNCL, and G7 would crumble in a fight with us then.

also gave us Age 65, Timmy "I am ALPA", and Corrupt Union leaders (Mr. Double pay at XJT)... THANKS ALPA..

Nevets havent you said over and over we at Skywest dont have a "real" ASAP program... :rolleyes:

Funny how if given the choice, how many at INC would rather drop ALPA to form an in house union. Sure says a lot about the credibility of ALPA on the regional level...

Explain how ALPA gave you age 65?

ALPA supported and URGED Pres. Bush to sign it into law...

Unrelated side note - this poster lady for SKW is pretty gosh darn good lookin!

Pilots » SkyWest Airlines

ALPA was the one group that delayed 65 for years. The change came about because ICAO switched to 65 and the FAA approved those pilots to fly in the US. Once that happened age 60 was dead. The FAA could no longer use the safety issue in court.There were several lawsuits already in the system. They were all going to win. Only at that point did ALPA agree to not oppose age 65. In return they were able to help craft the implementation rules and block over 60 pilots from coming back and creating furloughs. Sometimes it's good to be smart. Stupid nets you a lot less!

I'd like to see us all under one contract. Alpa or in house. I for one am not interested in jumping over to fly for mainline (skywest). I can stay on my coast. I see the benefits of having a much larger pilot group. That would have a great impact on Jerry's ability to continually whipsaw us and place the pilot groups against each other. Right now he is having his cake and eating it too. We must look at the big picture of what's better for everybody in the long run. Jerry is not our friend.

Fixed it for ya!

Please don't misunderstand me. ALPA has done some good things, 6 the way it looks. The biggest reason, as I see it at SkyWest that we don't, as a majority, want ALPA is many faceted. 1. We have a TON of former 121 regional/ALPA pilots here. Most will agree with me that these are the most vocal in opposition to ALPA. They paid their membership dues and for MANY reasons felt their money was wasted. 2. We are a SUB contractor. To put that into layman terms, It would be like you hiring the same divorce attorney that your wife has, the only problem is that your wife is paying the lawyer a lot more money, AND your wife has political power while you have....none. 3. I already mentioned it, we have way more power with the threat of a union than any union could give us here at Skywest. You can come up with any scenario that ALPA has helped an individual pilot and I can tell you a true story of a pilot at Skywest who will disagree.

It's also important to note that this was done, IIRC, after the majority of the members indicated in a poll that they did NOT want age 65.

ALPA's great if you're a widebody CA.

The poll in question was several years old and before many had their retirement plans terminated. Regardless of the poll however the age was going to 65 either via the courts or legislation. ALPA did the only smart thing. The fat lady sang when ICAO went to 65.

I'm not sure who's side your on.... So your saying that ALPA either could do nothing.... or chose to do nothing..... because it was a lose, lose no matter what? I'm not being a thorn, just trying to understand

Need some cheese with your whine? We are all sub-contracted labor.

You think ALPA will protect "your" flying. YeaI'm the idiot.:D

Quite attuned to the realities of this industry. 13 years 3 airlines.

My choices are based on what is best for my family.

Sticks and stones right. Sorry if you are not where you want to be.

I think you confuse my conviction for arrogance. My OPINION is to maintain seperate lists, and cultures. I have worked at 2 ALPA shops and dont think it would work at Skywest. Satifaction at my job is not a slight at yours.

For what its worth I went through the interview at ASA in 1999 and it was far more difficult than Skywest.

The poll wasn't that old, I think I recall participating in it.

I would have believed they did the right thing if they had done something other than throw both doors wide open for immediate implementation. If they had at least fought for a phased implementation or something to mitigate the impact.

Personally I'm OK with age 65, but I think a union should generally represent it's member's desires on something like this. If they thought the poll data was old (it wasn't) and irrelevant (I doubt it) they should have at least done a new poll before they proceeded. Just because they saw some writing on the wall doesn't mean you throw in your cards.

You don't quite seem to grasp that there was no time. A court decision could have been handed down within weeks. There was not even a 1 in a 1000 chance of the FAA winning in court. They gave up when they agreed to abide by the ICAO age 65. Something they really had no choice about since the US is a ICAO participant.
You also seem to think that somehow ALPA could have written a rule to override the courts. A phased in ruling would have resulted in the lawsuits being ruled upon and again found to be age discrimination.
ALPA got the one thing they thought might hold up in court and that was no retreads. Even that was a bit of a long shot however ALPA realized as others have that by the time new lawsuits could be filed and get through the system the pilots involved would be over 65. That however did not stop the lawsuits and there is at least one still in court on that issue.
The last thing is that ALPA is not a god that lords over and dictates to the FAA. When ICAO went to 65 the only issue was how would the FAA transition the US to age 65 and avoid as much court activity as possible. There was never a discussion about keeping 60. It was done and over. We live in a country of laws not dictates. Age discrimination is against the law unless you can show a specific public safety concern. Once the FAA agreed with ICAO that 65 was acceptable the lawsuits were green lighted to win.

Just to point something out, the SkyWest Inc 2nd Qtr 2012 10-Q shows that ExpressJet's operating income was $3,805,000. That is, operationally, it was cash flow positive.

Age 65 was inevitable regardless of ALPA. But you can thank ALPA for mitigating its effects on all part 121 pilots, including the non-union ones. As for corrupt leaders, just like in our US government, if they are bad, they get kicked out. Every pilot group has its bad apples and douche bags.

As for your ASAP, your welcome by the way, until someone finally produces the MOU, I will keep saying its a bogus program. But even if its "legit" or not, you can still thank ALPA for its concept of it.

Can you post something that proves that statement?

1. ALPA is as good as your pilot group. Its your peers who vote people into leadership positions. ALPA national has NOTHING to do with the character of the people that are working for any particular airline that happen to get democratically elected by their coworkers. Let me put it this way, what would those guys from other ALPA regionals say if you asked them if they would be better off or worse off by being non-union at those regional airlines and therefore pay no dues? My guess is if they were being honest they would say that they would be worse off. Just imagine how much worse pilots at Mesa and TSA would be if they were non-union and saving 1.95% in tax deductible union dues? We are all one CEO away from working for the next Ornstein!

2. There is no conflict of interest. If you understood ALPA, CPAs, and pilot contracts, you would realize that your analogy is flawed.

3. How about your fellow pilot Mr Douglas? Anyway, your welcome for ASAP, FOQO, FFDO, CASS, KCM, TCAS, GPWS, ALS, etc.

Age 65 was inevitable. That's why it passed UNANIMOUSLY in BOTH houses of congress and signed by the president in a matter of TWO DAYS. Not ONE person voted against it. ALPA is not that powerful.;)

"Let me put it this way, what would those guys from other ALPA regionals say if you asked them if they would be better off or worse off by being non-union at those regional airlines and therefore pay no dues?"

Finally we've reached the point. I didn't have to ask them, they told me. ALPA did nothing for them, it wouldn't have made any difference if they had a union or didn't. The only difference was they paid 2% of their income for no benefit. All of the "benefits" of ALPA were completely ignored by the company, when they went to their reps it took 2-3 years to get an answer, which invariably was "we're still working on it". Look, if you are happy with ALPA thats wonderful but please don't try to talk us into it if we're happy without. I'm not trying to talk you into getting rid of ALPA, am I?

Here ya go Nevets: this a good source for ya
ALPA News Release
ALPA Urges President Bush to Sign Age 65 into Law

WASHINGTON, D.C.—Capt. John Prater, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), issued the following statement after the U.S. Senate unanimously approved a bill to raise the mandatory retirement age for airline pilots to 65. The U.S. House of Representatives passed the same language, H.R. 4343, on December 11.

“ALPA has worked very hard to ensure that its Executive Board’s recommendations, intended to protect the piloting profession in the face of a change that was certain to come, were included in any age-change legislation.

“I am pleased to report to our members that this legislation reflects the direction of ALPA leadership. ALPA has been working closely with both the Senate and the House to ensure that the legislation moves to the White House as rapidly as possible. We urge President Bush to sign the bill swiftly.”

Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot union representing more than 60,000 pilots at 42 airlines in the U.S. and Canada.

# # #

Also Nevets we have showed u over and over we have a real deal FAA approved ASAP program that is EQUAL to any ASAP program at any other airline in the US.

Here is my example of union support. In the big picture, I don't believe they are any help to any of us. However in the smaller picture, in the day to day life, they are nice to have to call if we have a problem.

You'll be able to guess my company pretty easily but here is my thought...

JCBA is signed rather quickly by 3 airlines. No more than a year later, the company files bankruptcy citing excess pilot contract costs. We all know that isn't true. 80/20 chance the JCBA is thrown out in court. My pay will be cut by 20% plus a lot more. What can ALPA do? Nothing but stand by and watch. If ALPA wasn't here, we don't know what would have happened. So I can't say things would have been better. What I can say is, that I paid $800 last year and this year to ALPA and I am about to get my pay cut overall by more than 30% and probably be furloughed. I'm not saying I would vote ALPA out, and I'm not saying they haven't done anything for me. I am saying that I am not personally better off with the union.

On the bright side (since I"m a glass 2/3 full kinda guy) Bama looks unbeatable... again....) PM me if you need any help, not only at Skywest but at any of the majors, I have been around long enough to have friends pretty much everywhere domestically speaking. Good Luck.